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*PRICELESS*!: Israeli history professor rhetorically gives the ADL 'the *finger*'!
Hebrew University Israeli history professor Moshe Zimmerman compares Israel's IDF (military) to the Nazis! Kneejerk gadfly Jewish ADL -- Zionist domestic spy & harassment organization -- head Abe Foxman butts in, as usual, to demand apology. (Many prominent Jews, both contemporary and historical figures, have compared Israel/Zionism/IDF to *NAZIS*!) Israeli history professor Moshe Zimmerman retorts: "Regarding the involvement of ... [Abe] Foxman in the affair, he says, "I don't have to respond to every barking dog in the street"! A comment that's long overdue!
-
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/550192.html
HA’ARETZ
March 10, 2005
"When The Anti-Israel Sentiment Comes From Within"
- by Yair Sheleg
For years, Jewish organizations and their leaders seeking to contend with blatant anti-Israel statements have encountered the response, "What do you mean? Similar statements are made in Israel, by Israelis."
A few weeks ago, there was a new precedent for this phenomenon. Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, sent a letter to Hebrew University President Prof. Menachem Megidor demanding a public response to statements made by the head of the university's German studies department, Prof. Moshe Zimmerman. According to the letter, Zimmerman compared Israel Defense Forces soldiers to Nazis.
University authorities in effect failed to say a thing to Zimmerman. Moreover, the university rector, Dan Rabinowitz, demanded that the former leader of the Jewish community in Berlin, Dr. Alexander Brenner, apologize for his statement that "there are professors at the Hebrew University who compare the behavior of IDF soldiers to the behavior of SS soldiers."
Foxman decided to intervene after the matter was brought to his attention in repeated requests from one of the university's lecturers, Dr. Yaacov Bergman of the School of Business Administration. Bergman, who says that he leans to the political right since the events of September 11, 2001, is leading a campaign over Zimmerman's statements, not only on the political front but also mainly as part of a struggle for the image of universities in Israel. His own university, he says, "acts as a guild primarily protecting the interests of its own members, as opposed to the interests of the public."
In applying pressure to Foxman, Bergman took advantage of the fact that Foxman has been embroiled in a similar affair in New York in recent months. There, in a scandal that made waves across the United States, Foxman urged Columbia University leaders to denounce Arab professors in the Middle East and Asian Languages and Cultures Department, who regularly question the legitimacy of Israel.
In the wake of the media storm, Columbia President Lee Bollinger decided to cancel a controversial course entitled "Palestinians and Israel," taught by Prof. Joseph Massad. Massad was quoted as having said in a lecture that "The Jewish state is a racist state that does not have a right to exist," and that Ariel Sharon "resembles Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels."
Another professor, Hamid Dabashi, was quoted as having said that Israel is "a ghastly state of racism and apartheid," and called Israel's supporters "Gestapo apparatchiks." Dabashi later announced that he had decided to exercise caution regarding his public statements, and canceled several public appearances.
Foxman writes to Megidor
Foxman did not enter lightly into the Zimmerman affair at the Hebrew University. Bergman says that he threatened Anti-Defamation League personnel that if they do not intervene here, he would "pick up the telephone and call Bollinger's office to tell him that he does not need to take them seriously."
In recent months, Bergman consistently leaned on Ken Jacobson, who heads the Anti-Defamation League's International Department, to the point where Jacobson angrily responded, "I do not respect your pressure tactics."
However, the pressure appears to have worked. On February 16, after a few weeks of correspondence, Foxman wrote a letter to Megidor. In his letter he notes that, "While any professor has the right to express his or her views, it seems to me that the university administration has an obligation to consider when certain views are beyond the pale and harmful to the institution and the Jewish People. I believe leaders of institutions have an obligation to speak out when hateful messages are conveyed, and to consider taking certain actions against those individuals who are articulating such messages."
As the letter's tone makes clear, Foxman does not point to specific actions. "Because of my feelings regarding the question of freedom of expression and academic freedom, I also did not demand that Columbia University take specific steps," he told Haaretz. "I only demanded that action be taken in this matter, and that is what I demand of the Hebrew University."
Foxman said he indeed approached Megidor with a measure of hesitation partially because a Jewish and Israeli institution was involved.
"However, I cannot finally adhere to a double-standard: One demand of Columbia University and another of Hebrew University."
The affair began in August 2001, with an article written by historian Anat Peri for Haaretz. Peri's article investigated the image of Europe and its relations to Israel. Peri wrote a sentence stating that while smaller European nations denounced Israel and compared Israel to Nazi Germany, "Germany, which cannot afford to denounce Israel as the equivalent of Nazi Germany, supports any Israeli person or group who compares Israel to the Nazis, from B'tselem to Prof. Moshe Zimmerman."
Zimmerman filed a libel suit against Peri and Haaretz. It is not Zimmerman's first libel suit. The late Rehavam Ze'evi sued him for libel in response to an article in the weekly Jerusalem that compared members of the right-wing to Nazis. In 2000, Ze'evi won that suit. This time, too, Tel Aviv Magistrate's Court Judge Yehudit Shevah accepted the assertions of Peri and Haaretz that Zimmerman did compare Israeli organizations and individuals to Nazis, on various occasions. She even cited some examples, "Between Hebron youth and Hitler Youth, between the motivation and conditions of service in some of the IDF's elite units and that of the Waffen SS, between Israeli soccer fans and those of the Third Reich, and between the Old Testament and Mein Kampf."
Zimmerman writes to Brenner
In January 2004, about two months before Zimmerman's suit was dismissed, Alexander Brenner was interviewed on Israel Radio in a program about new European anti-Semitism. "The fact that Hebrew University professors compare Israel to the Nazis fans the flames of German anti-Semitism," he complained. A few days later, Brenner received a letter from Zimmerman demanding an apology, on the grounds that, "The faculty at the Hebrew University may assume that you were hinting about me."
He received another request to apologize several weeks later. This letter, signed by Hebrew University Rector Haim Rabinowitz, actually included a proposed script outlining the language of the apology.
Bergman is convinced that the timing of both demands for an apology is not coincidental. "Zimmerman knew that a judgment in his case was about to be made public, and believed that Brenner's apology regarding such an indictment would influence the magistrate."
The demands made of Brenner were exposed in another article, written by Peri for Maariv in July, entitled, "The Hebrew University's Disgrace." The article was accompanied by a response from the university's spokeswoman, Orit Sulitzeanu. According to Sulitzeanu, "The rector believed, based on information which he received, that Dr. Brenner was interested in apologizing to the professors of the university, and, therefore, he was offered a proposed transcript of a letter which would make it possible for him to withdraw his general indictment of them. In retrospect, the rector believes that he should not have become involved in the matter. Zimmerman's reaction to this reticent response was a letter to Maariv attacking the rector for his failure to meet his obligation to protect fellow members of the academic faculty at the university."
Brenner's response was unavailable this week. University spokeswoman Sulitzeanu reiterated her claim that the rector believed, "that Dr. Brenner is interested in apologizing in order to put an end to the affair."
Even when asked, the spokeswoman failed to address Foxman's demand that the university administration respond to Zimmerman's statements. According to Sulitzeanu, the letter reached the university president's office only this week.
Zimmerman, for his part, does not hesitate to attack. "Brenner's accusations toward me are unfounded, even after Judge Shevah's ruling," he said. "Because, with all due respect, we are talking about the Magistrate's Court, and I have already filed an appeal with the District Court."
Zimmerman does not deny the existence of comparisons he has made between aspects of the Nazi period and present-day Israel, but concludes that they are "The comparisons of a historian, based on his professional principles. Comparison does not mean that both sides are necessarily equivalent."
Regarding the involvement of Bergman and Foxman in the affair, he says, "I don't have to respond to every barking dog in the street," and criticizes Foxman's failure to contact him before turning to university administration. "People have to know the facts before they start running around," he says.
Foxman, in turn, said: "It is not my role to conduct a dialogue with this professor. And what could he possibly tell me? That Israel really does resemble the Nazis? What concerns me is that the university handle this."
Foxman promises to continue to confront those who compare Israel with the Nazis in the future, "exactly as we do in regard to people who are not Israelis or Jews. We must not say that it is forbidden for some and permissible for others."
-
___________________________________________________________________________________
FINALLY SOMEONE GIVES THE ADL 'THE FINGER'! IT'S ABOUT TIME!!
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/550192.html
HA’ARETZ
March 10, 2005
"When The Anti-Israel Sentiment Comes From Within"
- by Yair Sheleg
For years, Jewish organizations and their leaders seeking to contend with blatant anti-Israel statements have encountered the response, "What do you mean? Similar statements are made in Israel, by Israelis."
A few weeks ago, there was a new precedent for this phenomenon. Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, sent a letter to Hebrew University President Prof. Menachem Megidor demanding a public response to statements made by the head of the university's German studies department, Prof. Moshe Zimmerman. According to the letter, Zimmerman compared Israel Defense Forces soldiers to Nazis.
University authorities in effect failed to say a thing to Zimmerman. Moreover, the university rector, Dan Rabinowitz, demanded that the former leader of the Jewish community in Berlin, Dr. Alexander Brenner, apologize for his statement that "there are professors at the Hebrew University who compare the behavior of IDF soldiers to the behavior of SS soldiers."
Foxman decided to intervene after the matter was brought to his attention in repeated requests from one of the university's lecturers, Dr. Yaacov Bergman of the School of Business Administration. Bergman, who says that he leans to the political right since the events of September 11, 2001, is leading a campaign over Zimmerman's statements, not only on the political front but also mainly as part of a struggle for the image of universities in Israel. His own university, he says, "acts as a guild primarily protecting the interests of its own members, as opposed to the interests of the public."
In applying pressure to Foxman, Bergman took advantage of the fact that Foxman has been embroiled in a similar affair in New York in recent months. There, in a scandal that made waves across the United States, Foxman urged Columbia University leaders to denounce Arab professors in the Middle East and Asian Languages and Cultures Department, who regularly question the legitimacy of Israel.
In the wake of the media storm, Columbia President Lee Bollinger decided to cancel a controversial course entitled "Palestinians and Israel," taught by Prof. Joseph Massad. Massad was quoted as having said in a lecture that "The Jewish state is a racist state that does not have a right to exist," and that Ariel Sharon "resembles Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels."
Another professor, Hamid Dabashi, was quoted as having said that Israel is "a ghastly state of racism and apartheid," and called Israel's supporters "Gestapo apparatchiks." Dabashi later announced that he had decided to exercise caution regarding his public statements, and canceled several public appearances.
Foxman writes to Megidor
Foxman did not enter lightly into the Zimmerman affair at the Hebrew University. Bergman says that he threatened Anti-Defamation League personnel that if they do not intervene here, he would "pick up the telephone and call Bollinger's office to tell him that he does not need to take them seriously."
In recent months, Bergman consistently leaned on Ken Jacobson, who heads the Anti-Defamation League's International Department, to the point where Jacobson angrily responded, "I do not respect your pressure tactics."
However, the pressure appears to have worked. On February 16, after a few weeks of correspondence, Foxman wrote a letter to Megidor. In his letter he notes that, "While any professor has the right to express his or her views, it seems to me that the university administration has an obligation to consider when certain views are beyond the pale and harmful to the institution and the Jewish People. I believe leaders of institutions have an obligation to speak out when hateful messages are conveyed, and to consider taking certain actions against those individuals who are articulating such messages."
As the letter's tone makes clear, Foxman does not point to specific actions. "Because of my feelings regarding the question of freedom of expression and academic freedom, I also did not demand that Columbia University take specific steps," he told Haaretz. "I only demanded that action be taken in this matter, and that is what I demand of the Hebrew University."
Foxman said he indeed approached Megidor with a measure of hesitation partially because a Jewish and Israeli institution was involved.
"However, I cannot finally adhere to a double-standard: One demand of Columbia University and another of Hebrew University."
The affair began in August 2001, with an article written by historian Anat Peri for Haaretz. Peri's article investigated the image of Europe and its relations to Israel. Peri wrote a sentence stating that while smaller European nations denounced Israel and compared Israel to Nazi Germany, "Germany, which cannot afford to denounce Israel as the equivalent of Nazi Germany, supports any Israeli person or group who compares Israel to the Nazis, from B'tselem to Prof. Moshe Zimmerman."
Zimmerman filed a libel suit against Peri and Haaretz. It is not Zimmerman's first libel suit. The late Rehavam Ze'evi sued him for libel in response to an article in the weekly Jerusalem that compared members of the right-wing to Nazis. In 2000, Ze'evi won that suit. This time, too, Tel Aviv Magistrate's Court Judge Yehudit Shevah accepted the assertions of Peri and Haaretz that Zimmerman did compare Israeli organizations and individuals to Nazis, on various occasions. She even cited some examples, "Between Hebron youth and Hitler Youth, between the motivation and conditions of service in some of the IDF's elite units and that of the Waffen SS, between Israeli soccer fans and those of the Third Reich, and between the Old Testament and Mein Kampf."
Zimmerman writes to Brenner
In January 2004, about two months before Zimmerman's suit was dismissed, Alexander Brenner was interviewed on Israel Radio in a program about new European anti-Semitism. "The fact that Hebrew University professors compare Israel to the Nazis fans the flames of German anti-Semitism," he complained. A few days later, Brenner received a letter from Zimmerman demanding an apology, on the grounds that, "The faculty at the Hebrew University may assume that you were hinting about me."
He received another request to apologize several weeks later. This letter, signed by Hebrew University Rector Haim Rabinowitz, actually included a proposed script outlining the language of the apology.
Bergman is convinced that the timing of both demands for an apology is not coincidental. "Zimmerman knew that a judgment in his case was about to be made public, and believed that Brenner's apology regarding such an indictment would influence the magistrate."
The demands made of Brenner were exposed in another article, written by Peri for Maariv in July, entitled, "The Hebrew University's Disgrace." The article was accompanied by a response from the university's spokeswoman, Orit Sulitzeanu. According to Sulitzeanu, "The rector believed, based on information which he received, that Dr. Brenner was interested in apologizing to the professors of the university, and, therefore, he was offered a proposed transcript of a letter which would make it possible for him to withdraw his general indictment of them. In retrospect, the rector believes that he should not have become involved in the matter. Zimmerman's reaction to this reticent response was a letter to Maariv attacking the rector for his failure to meet his obligation to protect fellow members of the academic faculty at the university."
Brenner's response was unavailable this week. University spokeswoman Sulitzeanu reiterated her claim that the rector believed, "that Dr. Brenner is interested in apologizing in order to put an end to the affair."
Even when asked, the spokeswoman failed to address Foxman's demand that the university administration respond to Zimmerman's statements. According to Sulitzeanu, the letter reached the university president's office only this week.
Zimmerman, for his part, does not hesitate to attack. "Brenner's accusations toward me are unfounded, even after Judge Shevah's ruling," he said. "Because, with all due respect, we are talking about the Magistrate's Court, and I have already filed an appeal with the District Court."
Zimmerman does not deny the existence of comparisons he has made between aspects of the Nazi period and present-day Israel, but concludes that they are "The comparisons of a historian, based on his professional principles. Comparison does not mean that both sides are necessarily equivalent."
Regarding the involvement of Bergman and Foxman in the affair, he says, "I don't have to respond to every barking dog in the street," and criticizes Foxman's failure to contact him before turning to university administration. "People have to know the facts before they start running around," he says.
Foxman, in turn, said: "It is not my role to conduct a dialogue with this professor. And what could he possibly tell me? That Israel really does resemble the Nazis? What concerns me is that the university handle this."
Foxman promises to continue to confront those who compare Israel with the Nazis in the future, "exactly as we do in regard to people who are not Israelis or Jews. We must not say that it is forbidden for some and permissible for others."
-
___________________________________________________________________________________
FINALLY SOMEONE GIVES THE ADL 'THE FINGER'! IT'S ABOUT TIME!!
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ADL SPY SCANDAL
-- JA
But we cannot celebrate yet. Much more work must be done to counteract the decades of biased misinformation and lies directed at the American public via the Zionized US media.
We must continue to outreach to our fellow Americans of all creeds, races, ethnicities who care about justice for all and want an end to racist, imperialistic wars, without exceptions. Once they learn the truth about Israel and Zionism, American support for Israel will evaporate into thin air.
And the world will be on the road to becoming a much better place.
The Israelis aren't not killing Palestinians just for being Palestinians.
How many concentration camps does Israel have?
How many people have they killed in death camps?
How many people have they burnt in ovens?
Zimmerman has a history of making such far out statements. The last is pretty much par for the course for this academic.
... something they're in no danger of getting from you, Wehrmacht Wendy. Nazoid URLs yes, truth no.
@%<
(Byrd discussed the political structure of Nazism in a Senate speech where he opposed the elimination of the 60 vote rule to cut off debate, effectively destroying the opportunity to filibuster)
apparently, Byrd and Zimmerman didn't understand that if you want to discuss any aspects of Nazism in any contemporary context, you have to get the text of your comments pre-approved by the ADL
one can only imagine how Foxman got wind of Zimmerman's remarks
does he have a spy operation in Israel like he used to have (and may still have) in the United States?
--Richard
You can tell why the Palestinians bring their children on the idea that being a terrorist bomb is completely honorable.
You can tell why the Palestinian children are taught that they have to kill Jews.
You can tell why the Palestinians use Palestinian children to make and plant bombs.
You can tell why the Palestinians allow children to be in the street when the Israeli tanks are rolling by.
You can tell why Palestinian children are used as human shields.
You can tell why the Israelis murdered by the Palestinians are irrelevant.
You can tell why the Palestinians target Israeli children and kill them.
You can tell why Israel is the only country in the world lacking the right to defend its citizens and itself.
This is a lie as big as a cathedral, as demonstrated short time after the facts.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/4/Aerial%20Photographs%20of%20Jenin
What? They told you Jenin was "totally destroyed"? Outside a very small combat area, it was untouched. Why do you suppose they lied to you?
@%<
You forgot to add the slur, "self-hating Jew".
And "anti-semite" if they are not Jewish.
You're advised to go back to college and take a course of Israeli studies.
Your reaction to my comment boils down to being rather long on emotion and pretty short on wisdom.
The angel of irony is aghast at observing people such as him who are so ever reflexively suspiucious of the US governments' motives, yet have swallowed every line of Palestinian propaganda hook, line and sinker.
When they're so many Palestinian kids having been themselves combatants, or been used as human shields for adult terrorists and gunmen, or having not been taken out of harm's way, or been hit as collateral damage, is it any wonder that several hundreds of them have been killed "wholesale" (ha, the idiocy).
These and other questions have recently provoked enough public anger and heated debate to inspire a large number of legal experts, political analysts, social activists, and media people from around the Arab world to attend a three-day Cairo University conference on the repercussions of the new US global anti- Semitism act.
The conference, which began on Tuesday, is the first to be held on the subject since the October 2004 enactment of the new law and the January 2005 release of the US State Department's first survey on global anti- Semitism. It represents the joint efforts of Cairo University's Centre for Political Research and Studies (CPRS), the non-governmental Arabs Against Discrimination (AAD), and the Egyptian Society of International Law (ESIL).
"The law marks the peak of US dominance over the world," thundered CPRS Chairwoman Nadia Mustafa, who is also a Cairo University political science professor. "We have to find ways to stand up to the US clampdown on freedoms in the Arab and Islamic world."
ESIL Secretary-General Salah Amer, a Cairo University international law professor, called the new legislation "terror of thought".
By passing the new law, warned Palestinian political analyst Salman Abu Setta, "the US is waging an unprecedented, relentless war on our rights, creed and identity."
There was a general consensus among the experts at the conference that the US law was designed to gag critics of Israeli crimes, and underline US global hegemony, at the same time. The law requires the State Department to provide a country-by-country report on anti- Semitic acts and "harassment", and the subsequent governmental response. The report, according to the law, would also include information on governmental efforts to promote "tolerance" and "anti-bias education".
Some legal experts said that would interfere with states' independence, and principles of international law and human rights. The act "is a blatant violation of international law and legitimacy", said Cairo University assistant political science professor Mohamed Shawqi. The law's global identity made it clear that the US was "putting itself at the whole world's steering wheel, punishing disobedient countries that reject US hegemony. But according to international law, no country has the right to enact punishment on another country for violating human rights, or committing anti- Semitic acts."
Many said the law appeared to target Muslims and Arabs, and thus seemed to be aimed primarily at serving Israeli and Zionist plans in the region. Analysts speculated that the legislation would be specifically used to block information on the US's "imperialist agenda", and gag media houses and web portals exposing Israeli violations of human rights in Palestine.
More
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/733/eg3.htm
Then the Arabs feel their "right" to demonize Israel and the Jews in danger, don't they?
They fear that their "freedom of speech" muzzled.
I cannot believe my eyes.
The Arab countries are so great supporters of freedom of speech.
According to this, killing Jews and attacking Israel is a right, and it's part of their creed and identity.
<<The report, according to the law, would also include information on governmental efforts to promote "tolerance" and "anti-bias education".>>
To promote "tolerance" is lso against Arabs' rights, creed and identity.
With you're 'credibilty', CT, if _you're_ attacking Zimmerman, then that's all we really need to know. He definitely must be telling the stark truth.
I believe him.
2. I doubt you had been aware of any sort of dossier on Zimmerman's statements in regard to the dispute with the Palestinians; I, however, have heard and read his statements on several occasions. At any rate, you're incapable at this juncture of going beyond making *assumptions*.
2. I doubt you had been aware of any sort of dossier on Zimmerman's statements in regard to the dispute with the Palestinians; I, however, have heard and read his statements on several occasions. At any rate, at this juncture you're incapable of going beyond making *assumptions*.
All I can credit you with at this point is that you're at least sufficiently polite not to charge at me childishly as JA does.
CT: "not to charge at me childishly as JA does"
It's rather childish of you to go attack someone in your own charge who's not under discussion.
Bye.
Now, the challenge stands for any "educator" to do the same in a moslem dictatorship, monarchy or theocracy...the only question that needs to be asked:
Will the professor be beheaded, hung or just shot in the back of the head, for criticising a moslem overlord? (There's always the wood chipper, or the bbq pit too)
The Anti-Zionist Death Ray: a public service announcement
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721876.php
(Yo "TW", I got back to you late, so I thought that I had better repost my comment, so you could see it, from the above thread, which I see that Indybay has since put on hidden status and deleted one of your major comment posts there. I guess I'll have to save a copy of this too.)
TRUTH WARRIOR: "Basically, ideologues like these blockheads just use ideas and information very selectively to support delusions that arise from much deeper, much less defensible emotional longings, like morbid insecurity and -- whodathunkit -- racism. It's a weakness of human minds, but these clowns are borderline psychotic with it. You're right that it's quite futile to banter with them; there is just NO WAY, short of a week of electro-shock, you'll ever reach them. I think the real value of such discussions is that OTHER PEOPLE get to see how deep their lunacy really goes.
Also, I do enjoy kicking their stupid teeth down their gullets. CT's such an arrogant asshole; backing him into a corner with his own bullshit is especially fun. Sefarad's just pathetic. gehrig's better with sleazy word games"
YES, TW, I TRY TO MAKE **DIDACTIC** FUNNN OF 'DEM ZIONISTS -- NOT TO CHANGE *THEIR* MINDS BUT TO EXPOSE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE!!
I'M SORRY THAT I DIDN'T GET BACK TO YOU EARLIER ABOUT THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED A LINK TO BEFORE THE ENTIRE THREAD SLIPPED OFF THE MAIN COMMENT PAGE.
I DIDN'T AGREE TO ALL OF IT THE ARTICLE LINK CONTENT, BUT IT WAS CERTAINLY INTELLECTUALLY PROVOCATIVE AND ELEMENTS OF THE ARTICLE WERE HIGHLY WORTH CONSIDERING BOTH PRO AND CON:
THE RELFLECTION OF THOSE ELEMENTS -- BOTH PRO AND CON -- WOULD EXPOSE DEEPER TRUTHS REDACTED FROM HISTORY.
I'M SORRY TO SEE THAT THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE WAS PUT ON HIDDEN STATUS AND THAT YOUR MAJOR COMMENT POST (WITH THE SUPPLEMENTAL ARTICLE LINK) WAS DELETED.
THE ORGANIZED LEFT IN THIS COUNTRY -- EVEN, IN SOME REPECTS AS REPRESENTED IN CERTAIN INDYMEDIAS -- ARE A RATHER HIGHLY *MIXED* BAG.
...WELL, ZIONISM EVEN CAUSES INTERNAL INCONSISTENCIES AND CONTRADICTIONS WITHIN THE ORGANIZED LEFT TOO, EVEN IF IT GIVES ANTI-RACISTS (THUS, ANTI-ZIONISTS) A LITTLE MORE SPACE FOR DIALOGUE AND DISSENT.
I'D SAY THAT, THROUGH ITS GUILT TACTICS, ZIONISM POLLUTES -- IF NOT INFILTRATES IN A MORE MACHIAVELLIAN WAY -- EVERYTHING IT COMES INTO CONTACT WITH.
EVEN TODAY ON "LEFTIST" KPFA ONE CALLER WENT ON -- UNCHALLENGED BY ANY OF THE IN-STUDIO GUEST -- SAYING THAT "ISLAMOFACISM" WAS THE WORLD'S GREATEST DANGER.
...YET "ISLAMOFACISM" HAS NO VIABLE MILITARY, NO VIABLE AIRFORCE, NO INTERCONTINENTAL OR CRUISE MISSILE FORCE, NO SUBMARINE OR AIR CRAFT CARRIER TASK FORCES, NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
"ISLAMOFACISM" DOESN'T HAVE A STRANGLEHOLD ON AMERICAN FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC POLICY FOR THE EURO-RELIGIO-ETHNOCHAUVINISTIC BENEFIT OF ONE SMALL STATE OF SOCIO-PSYCHOPATHIC FANATICAL MILITANT ZIONIST (RELIGIOUS/POLITICALLY) FUNDAMENTALIST JEWS.
ANYWAY, THE WORLD HAS ENTERED THE MOST DANGEROUS PERIOD SINCE THE UNCHECKED RISE OF INTERCONTINENTAL NUCLEAR MISSILES. BUT AT LEAST THE SOVIET UNION KEPT THE U.S. IN CHECK; AND AT LEAST THE SOVIET UNION NEVER PERPETRATED 9-11's -- EITHER THEN OR MORE TO COME (WHOMEVER THE ACTUAL PERPETRATORS WERE).
THIS IS BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES THE U.S. GOVT HAVE THE TECHNOLOGICAL ABILITY TO CONTROL FOREIGN, NON-EUROPEAN, COUNTRIES DIRECTLY, THROUGH ADVANCED MILITARY FORCE, AS USUAL;
THE U.S. -- NOW NEOCON -- GOVT WILL INCREASINGLY HAVE THE TECHNOLOGICAL ABLILITY, THROUGH MASS SURVEILLANCE-&-CONTROL TECHNOLOGY (THROUGH MACRO-, MICRO-, AND NANO-ELECTRONICS, TO FASCISTICALLY CONTROL OUR *DOMESTIC* SOCIETY, *DIRECTLY*.
WE *ALL* WILL EVENTUALLY BE INDIVIDUALLY AND *ACTIVELY* MONITORED AND TRACKED -- EVERTHING FROM WHAT WE READ IN THE LIBRARY TO WHAT WE BUY FROM THE GROCERY STORE TO WHERE WE ARE AT ANY MOMENT -- AS NEVER BEFORE -- THE TECHNOLOGICAL *SWEEPSTAKES* FOR FASCISTIC "LAW ENFORCEMENT"!!
IT'S GOING TO BE VERY TOUCH-&-GO FOR THE NEXT HALF-DOZEN TO DOZEN YEARS!!: SOMEONE'S GONNA MAKE A MAJOR *MOVE* BETWEEN OUR GOVT AND THE "TERRORISTS" OUR NEOCON ("ISRAELIZED") GOVT (REPUB AND DEM) IS, IN EFFECT, RECRUITING FOR BIN LADEN OR WHOMEVER!! -- ONE DAY, 9/11 WILL LOOK NOSTALGIC!!
(ISRAEL, LIKE THE CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST FOR THEIR OWN NUTTY REASONS, *WANTS* TO SEE THAT ULTIMATE APOCALYPTIC *SHOWDOWN* IN THE MIDDLE EAST -- ULTIMATELY USING THE U.S. MILITARY, AND *OUR* LIVES, OF COURSE -- BECAUSE ISREAL IS SURE THAT IT WILL WIN!)
OF COURSE, THE ENTIRE CATASTROPHE -- AND SUPPORTING, DECADES-LONG SEQUENCE OF EVENTS -- STARTED THE MINUTE THE UK AND U.S. DECIDED TO SPONSOR, DEMAND, AND *IMPOSE* A *EUROPEAN* STATE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ARAB WORLD!!
...HOW WOULD *ANY* ONE ELSE HAVE RESPONDED TO *ANY* STATE SO UNJUSTIFIABLY BEING SLAMMED DOWN ON THEIR HEADS, AND THE INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS MASS DISPLACED!?
SOME DISSENTING BRITISH FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICIALS *WARNED* THAT THERE WOULD BE NOTHING BUT TURMOIL (FOR THE WEST TOO) FOR THE NEXT **HALF-CENTURY** IF ISRAEL WAS FORCED ON THE ARAB WORLD!! ...THEY OBVIOUSLY *UNDERESTIMATED*!!
THOSE BRITISH FOREIGN OFFICIALS WARNED THAT IT WOULD TAKE WESTERN ARMIES TO KEEP ISRAEL IN PLACE!!
OH, EVENTUALLY THE NEOCON'S PRECIOUS ZIONIST SCHEME WILLL ENGULF THE REST OF THE WORLD -- UNTIL THERE IS ANOTHER TECTONIC CATACLYSM LIKE WWII.
AND, OF COURSE, ORDINARY PEOPLE WILL PAY THE BIGGEST PRICE IN DEATH AND DESTRUCTION -- WHILE THE ELITE GET EVEN RICHER (AND THEIR CORPORATIONS EVEN FATTER) ON WAR PROFITEERING.
BUT, THIS TIME, IT WILL HIT THE U.S. FIRST -- AND HARDEST.
AND WE SEE, THROUGH SEMI-RANDOM CENSORSHIP, THAT EVEN INDYMEDIA IS OFTEN INDECISIVE ON THE DEBATE -- ITSELF EVEN POTENTIALLY HIGHLY VULNERABLE TO THE ZIONIST'S 'DEATH RAY'.
THAT'S WHY I KEEP MY PASSPORT HANDY.
FOR US IT'S A RACE BETWEEN DISCLOSURE OF THE EMPORER AND DESTRUCTION OF OUR SOCIETY.
No. Arabs and Muslims will continue to use disgusting anti-Semitic imagery in their government owned and operated Presses.
Lebanon
By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer
3-12-5
According to high-level Lebanese intelligence sources-Christian and
Muslim-former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was reportedly
assassinated in a sophisticated explosion-by-wire bombing authorized
by the Bush administration and Ariel Sharon's Likud government in
Israel.
There are also strong indications that the Hariri assassination was
carried out by the same rogue Syrian intelligence agents used in the
2002 car bombing assassination of Lebanese Christian leader Elie
Hobeika, who was prepared to testify against Sharon in a Brussels
human rights court. That case involved the Israeli Prime Minister's
role in the 1982 massacre by Israeli troops of Palestinian refugees
at the Sabra and Chatilla camps in Beirut. The Hariri assasination
used wire-bombing technology because Hariri's security personnel used
electronic countermeasures to fend off a remote control bomb using
wireless means. It has been revealed that the Bush administration has
used Syrian intelligence agents to torture al Qaeda suspects through
the program known as "extraordinary rendition."
Hariri, a pan-Arabist and Lebanese nationalist, was known to
adamantly oppose the construction of a major U.S. air base in the
north of Lebanon. The United States wants Syrian troops completely
out of Lebanon before construction of the base is initiated. Hariri's
meetings with Hezbollah shortly before his death also angered
Washington and Jerusalem, according to the Lebanese intelligence
sources.
Washington and Jerusalem media experts spun Hariri's assassination as
being the work of Syrian intelligence on orders from President Bashar
Assad. However, a number of Middle East political observers in
Washington claim that Hariri's assassination was not in the interests
of Assad, but that the Bush and Sharon administrations had everything
to gain from it, including the popular Lebanese uprising against the
Syrian occupation.
Lebanese intelligence sources report that even without a formal
agreement with Lebanon, the contract for the northern Lebanese air
base has been let by the Pentagon to Jacobs Engineering Group of
Pasadena, California. Other construction support will be provided by
Bechtel Corporation.
Jacobs Engineering and Jacobs Sverdrup are currently contracted for
work in Saudi Arabia for Aramco, Iraq for the U.S. occupation
authority, Bosnia, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Yemen,
Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.
The Lebanese air base is reportedly to be used as a transit and
logistics hub for U.S. forces in Iraq and as a rest and relaxation
location for U.S. troops in the region. In addition, the Lebanese
base will be used to protect U.S. oil pipelines in the region (Baku-
Tbilisi-Ceyhan and Mosul/Kirkuk-Ceyhan) as well as to destabilize the
Assad government in Syria. The size of the planned air base
reportedly is on the scale of the massive American Al Udeid air base
in Qatar.
A number of intelligence sources have reported that assassinations of
foreign leaders like Hariri and Hobeika are ultimately authorized by
two key White House officials, Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove and
Deputy National Security Adviser Elliot Abrams. In addition, Abrams
is the key liaison between the White House and Sharon's office for
such covert operations, including political assassinations.
"Abrams is the guy they [the Israelis] go to for a wink and a nod for
such ops," reported one key source.
Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based journalist and columnist and
the co-author of "America's Nightmare: The Presidency of George
BushII."
Lebanon
By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer
3-12-5
According to high-level Lebanese intelligence sources-Christian and Muslim-former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri was reportedly assassinated in a sophisticated explosion-by-wire bombing authorized by the Bush administration and Ariel Sharon's Likud government in Israel.
hahahahaaaaa....
Israel used arabs to destroy the WTC.
Israel used arabs to attack the USS Cole.
Israel used arabs to kidnap and murder the israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics.
Israel used arabs to murder 250 US Marines in Beirut.
Israel used arabs in the 70's to hijack commercial airliners.
Israel used Arabs to blow up Israeli citizens.
Israel is currebntly using arabs to attack other arabs in Kuwait.
Apparently, Arabs are too simple and incompetent to do things on their own.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html
Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule
Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
Description of Appeal to Ridicule
The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has the following form:
1. X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed at the claim).
2. Therefore claim C is false.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can make it reasonable to reject the claim. One form of this line of reasoning is known as a "reductio ad absurdum" ("reducing to absurdity"). In this sort of argument, the idea is to show that a contradiction (a statement that must be false) or an absurd result follows from a claim. For example: "Bill claims that a member of a minority group cannot be a racist. However, this is absurd. Think about this: white males are a minority in the world. Given Bill's claim, it would follow that no white males could be racists. Hence, the Klan, Nazis, and white supremists are not racist organizations."
Since the claim that the Klan, Nazis, and white supremists are not racist organizations is clearly absurd, it can be concluded that the claim that a member of a minority cannot be a racist is false.
Examples of Appeal to Ridicule
1. "Sure my worthy opponent claims that we should lower tuition, but that is just laughable."
2. "Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks! Hah! Hah!"
3. "Those wacky conservatives! They think a strong military is the key to peace!"
Were JA alive 70 years ago, he'd be running around not condemning hitler but regurgitating what hitler said as if it were a vindication of his own racist beliefs.
I can't help but wonder why JA is so happy that someone gave the ADL "the finger". The ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE is a liberal progressive group. It advocates in favor of gay rights, against religious displays in public spaces, has urged the government to investigate allegations of abuse at Guantanamo, and against all forms of hate, bigotry, racism and discrimination.
Since it is a Jewish group, one of its main concerns is anti-semitism. Is this what offends the ilk of JA?
Is JA really a right-wing hatist racist trying to spread his vile propaganda on progressive sites?
Several IMCs have banned him.
Judge the ADL for yourself, based on its record:
http://www.adl.org/civil_rights/
THE ADL *GOES AFTER*, *ATTACKS*, AND *SLURS* (AS, GUESS *WHAT*!?) LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES -- EVEN JEWS -- WHO, ESPECIALLY TOO EFFECTIVELY, CRITICIZE ISRAEL OR ZIONISM.
GOOGLE: ADL SPY SCANDAL BLANKFORT
ALSO GOOGLE: "JEFFREY BLANKFORT"
"It [the ADL] advocates in favor of gay rights, against religious displays in public spaces,"
WELL, THIS IS THE *COVER* STORY FOR THE ADL. THE ADL IS A HARDCORE ELEMENT OF THE ZIONIST (PRO-ISRAEL) LOBBY.
IT WILL, ALONG WITH THE OTHER JEWISH/ZIONIST LOBBY ORGANIZATIONS WILL GO AFTR ANYONE WITH OFFICIAL/PUBLIC STATUS WHO CRITICIZES ISRAEL, AS THE ABOVE ARTICLE INDICATES -- AND VICIOUSLY, IF THAT PERSON IS NOT JEWISH.
THE ADL EQUATES ANYONE WHO OPPOSES ZIONISM OR CRITICIZES ISRAEL AS "ANTI-SEMITIC".
AND CHECK THIS OUT!!:
"Ralph Nader as David Duke?
The ADL Wants You to Think So"
http://www.counterpunch.org/frank08212004.html
ANYWAY, LOTS OF AFFLUENT JEWS WHO CONTRIBUTE TO THE ADL ARE GAY.
JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS HAVE OFTEN OPPOSED RELIGIOUS DISPLAYS/EXPRESSIONS IN PUBLIC PLACES BECAUSE JEWS IN THE U.S. HAVE BEEN AT A DISTINCT NUMERICAL DISADVANTAGE (LIKE ANY OTHER NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIOUS MINORITY) WHEN RELIGION AND STATE ARE NOT SEPARATED IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE (LIKE PUBLIC SCHOOLS -- MANY JEWISH KIDS DO ATTEND PUBLIC SCHOOLS, ETC).
"has urged the government to investigate allegations of abuse at Guantanamo,"
GIVE US THE RECITATION AND *DOCUMENTATION* OF THIS. LET'S SEE HOW HARD, IF AT ALL, THE ADL HAS PUSHED FOR SUCH INVESTIGATIONS OF PRISONER ABUSE.
IN FACT, JEWS IN THE MAJOR ORGANIZED JEWISH COMMUNITY (READ, ZIONIST LOBBY) HAVE, OVER THE DECADES, BECOME MUCH MORE CONSERVATIVE (NOW, *NEOCONSERIVATIVE*) AS THEIR PART OF THE DEAL WITH THE U.S. GOVT FOR ITS UNEQUIVOCAL SUPPORT OF ISRAEL.
AND, TO QUOTE SOMEONE ELSE, ADL HEAD ABE FOXMAN IS ONE OF THE MOST REPUBLICAN-FRIENDLY JEWISH LEADERS IN AMERICAN PUBLIC LIFE, EVER.
WHY WOULD THE ADL URGE THE U.S. GOVT TO "INVESTIGATE" TORTURE AND OTHER PRISONER ABUSES AT GUANTANAMO?: HAS THE ADL URGED *ISRAEL* TO INVESTIGATE TORTURE AND OTHER PRISONER ABUSE IN *ISRAEL*!?
"and against all forms of hate, bigotry, racism and discrimination."
THAT'S WHY, I SUPPOSE, THE ADL SPIED ON THE ANTI-APARTHEID MOVEMENT (AND PROBABLY THE CISPES MOVEMENT) IN THE U.S.?
GOOGLE: ADL SPY SCANDAL ANTI-APARTHEID MOVEMENT
BY THE WAY, DID THE ADL EVER CONDEMN ISRAEL'S *VERY* CLOSE ALLIANCE (EVEN MORESO THAN REAGAN AT THE TIME, APARTHEID'S #1 ALLY) AND SUPPORT FOR APARTHEID SOUTH AFRICA?
-- DID THE ADL EVER CONDEMN ISRAEL BEING APARTHEID SOUTH AFRICA'S NUMBER *1* ARMS MERCHANT?
-- DID THE ADL EITHER HELP GO AFTER OR, ALTERNATELY, CONDEMN THE *MAJOR* JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS (ALL ARE ZIONIST) FOR ORIGINALLY DEPOSING AFRICAN-AMERICAN CONGRESSWOMAN CYNTHIA MCKINNEY, BECAUSE SHE CALLED FOR MORE BALANCE IN U.S. ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN POLICY?...
WITH THOSE ORGANIZATIONS FORCING EVERY BLACK POLITICIAN (INCLUDING OAKLAND'S BARBARA LEE) -- AS A ***SLAVE*** TO THE ZIONIST LOBBY -- TO KISS ISRAEL'S ASS -- AND *LOVE* IT!!
============================================================================
OKAY, I GOOGLED: ADL GUANTANAMO .
THE ADL HAS NOT COMPELLED THE U.S. GOVT TO INVESTIGATE TORTURE OR OTHER BRUTAL PHYSICAL ABUSES OR PRISONERS AT GUANTANAMO.
*THIS* IS THE "INVESTIGATION" THAT THE ADL HAS PUSHED FOR:
http://www.adl.org
ADL Urges Rumsfeld to Investigate Guantanamo Allegations
The allegation that American military interrogators in Guantanamo have been advising detainees not to trust their lawyers because “they’re Jews,” promoted ADL to urge Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld to conduct “an immediate investigation, a public accounting and appropriate disciplinary action if such reports are determined to be accurate.”
YOU SEE, FOR ZIONIST JEWS, IT'S ALL BACK TO *ME* *ME* *ME* !!
AND MH (Morley Harper) THINKS THAT WE *GOYIM* ARE TOO *STOOOPID* TO EVEN CHECK!! -- PLAYING THE GOYIM FOR *FOOLS*!!
NEVER TRUST A SCUMMY ZIONIST.
U.S. GUANTANAMO INTERROGATORS WERE TRYING TO BREAK THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PRISONERS AND THEIR ATTORNEYS BY USING THAT PLOY -- AND SOME OF THOSE MILITARY INTERROGATORS USING THAT PLOY WERE PROBABLY *JEWISH*!!
IT HAS **NOTHING** TO DO WITH ANY TORTURE OR PHYSICAL ABUSES -- OR EVEN MENTAL ABUSES -- OF GUANTANAMO PRISONERS. FIGURES...
THE *ISRAELI* GOVT PROBABY WOULD HAVE USED A SIMILAR PLOY BY TELLING PALESTINIAN PRISONERS NOT TO TRUST ANY *LEFTIST* ISM LAWYERS, BY POINTING OUT ANY THAT WERE JEWISH.
( AFTER ALL, THIS ARE THE SAME ISRAELIS THAT *WELCOME* AND EVEN **HUG** IMPLICITLY *ANTI-SEMITIC* CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS WHO WANT ISRAEL TO EXIST SO THAT "CHRIST" CAN RETURN AND SEND ALL THE JEWS -- THOSE THAT DON'T FORCIBLY CONVERT -- TO HELL!! -- AS THE CHRISTIANS ARE RAISED INTO HEAVEN. )
AT ANY RATE, BOTH THE U.S. AND *ISRAEL* USE TORTURE -- EXCEPT THAT IN *ISRAEL* THE STATE HAS *FORMALLY* AND *OPENLY* *LEGALIZED* IT!!
*WHO* ARE THOSE IMC's MORLEY?
BESIDES SF-IMC (WHICH HAS BANNED SEVERAL OF *YOUR* ZIONIST FRIENDS) -- AND UC-IMC (urbana-champaign, illinois), INFILTRATED BY DAVID GEHRIG AND/OR HIS ARCH-ZIONIST COHORTS?
I KNOW THAT YOU ZIONISTS SPECIALIZE IN ATTEMPTED CHARACTER ASSASSINATION.
Supporters of the idea of a "New anti-Semitism" have made the claim that one of the manifestations of the "New anti-Semitism"involves false allegations made about Israel and Jews, with the intent of stirring up hatred against them. The section listsexamples they commonly use to support that claim.
Perhaps the most notable case was the so called "Jenin massacre"allegation, in which it was claimed that in Jenin, Israeli Defense Forces committed atrocities "horrific beyond belief" (according to United Nations special envoy Terje Roed-Larsen [3] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1937048.stm)) and "massacred" 500-3000 innocentPalestinians during Operation Defensive Shield.Two weeks after the press was promoting the Jenin massacre allegation, international reporters uncovered that no massacre tookplace in Jenin. Fatah lowered its estimation for the death toll to 56 people, themajority of whom were combatants, and in the battle, 23 IDF soldiers were killed. The "Jenin massacre" story sparked waves ofanti-Israeli protests and violent attacks against Jews in Europe, and was regarded by many Jews as a modern blood libel.
It may be noted, however, that most western media reports of a "massacre" in Jenin were presented as eyewitness accounts, andnot as undisputed facts. Many western media sources noted that it was difficult to ascertain what actually happened in Jenin inthe days after the end of Israeli military operations. No less a figure than Shimon Peres claimed that the government of Israel was inviting potentially false speculation through itsrestrictions on the media during this period.
In the Arab media, conspiracy theories involving Jews abound: "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a text debunked many years ago as a fraudperpetrated by Czarist intelligence agents, continued to appear in the Middle East media,not as a hoax, but as established fact. Government-sponsored television in Syria ran lengthy serials based on the Protocols. The presentations emphasized blood libeland the alleged control by the Jewish community of international finance. The clear purpose of the programs was to incite hatredof Jews and of Israel. Copies of the Protocols and other similar anti-Semitic forgeries were readily available in Middle Easterncountries, former Soviet republics and elsewhere. Similarly, allegations that Jews werebehind the 9/11 attacks were widely disseminated."1 (See also Conspiracy theories claiminginvolvement by Zionists or Jews in the September 11, 2001 attacks)
Such media channels often broadcast globally and incite attacks against Jews. On December 2004, the French courtbanned Hizbullah's TV channel Al-Manar after repeated anti-Semitic attacks and allegations such as "Zionist attempts to transmit AIDS to Arab countries" [4] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4093579.stm).
Now, where have I EVER said that?
@%<
1. I "try to sound reasonable", but am not.
2. Being reasonable is by definition diametrically opposed to supporting any and all Jewish residence in the disputed territories, or siding with any Jews residing there.
3. No kind of "excuse" in support of Jewish residence in the disputed territories is admissible or can do.
4. My support of any Jewish settlements and their residents in Judea-Samaria is meant to justify rendering any sort of final settlement of the conflict impossible.
All of these premises are your imagination's figment and false.
Thanks for proving my point - that you can't see beyond your hatist racist rage:
MH> [ADL] advocates in favor of gay rights
JA> Lots of affluent Jews who contribute to the adl are gay.
True or not, so what?
Ah, for you it's about the "affluent Jews", eh? As if non-affluent gay Jews do not contribute to the ADL? As if non-Jews and straights don't contribute to the ADL?
The fact that gays are comfortable within the ADL, the fact that the ADL is comfortable with gays, and the fact the ADL advocates in favor of equal rights for gays speaks much louder than your hatist racist nonsense.
MH> [ADL advocates] against religious displays in public spaces
JA> Jewish organizations have often opposed religious displays/expressions in public places because Jews in the U.S. have been at a distinct numerical disadvantage
Thanks for explaining why the ADL is on the correct side of this important issue of our time, that it understands minority issues, and that it is an ally opposing President Bush's and the religious right's conservative agenda.
The fact remains that the ADL is on the left side of this issue speaks much louder than your hatist racist spam propaganda.
MH> has urged the government to investigate allegations of abuse at Guantanamo
JA> The allegation that American military interrogators in Guantanamo have been advising detainees not to trust their lawyers because “they’re Jews”
There are two wrongs here, and on both the ADL is on the correct side of the issue.
First the attempt to infringe on the rights of the prisoners.
Second the anti-semitic nature of the advice.
For more about balancing civil rights and security, see:
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Civil_Rights/NYSUN_070904.htm
These facts speak much louder than your smoke and mirrors.
MH> against all forms of hate, bigotry, racism and discrimination
JA> Jews, it's all back to *me* *me* *me* !!
So it's not OK for a Jewish group to monitor and complain about anti-semitism?
It's comical that you can't even see how ridiculous you sound. Who but a racist would blame the victim for speaking up for himself? But then, you probably also oppose African American groups that speak out against racism.... So either you are a hypocrite when it comes to Jews, or you're a racist.
The fact of the matter is that, again, the ADL is on the correct side of an issue - and YOU ARE NOT! We should be supporting the ADL and other groups, Jewish or not, which fight anti-semitism as well as other forms of hate, bigotry, racism and discrimination. Not condemning them for doing so. Duh!!
JA> Jews... have, over the decades, become much more conservative (now, *neoconserivative*) as their part of the deal with the U.S. govt
I wonder what Bush will do to retaliate for only getting 23% of the Jewish vote. Reminds me of what his good friend, James Baker, once advised his father: "F*ck the Jews, they don't vote for us anyhow".
So surely this "deal" was made with the Clinton administration?
The bottom line is that you despise the ADL because it is a Jewish group. For this "sin", you attempt to (in typical racist fashion) rationalize away anything good about the organization - until only what you don't like remains, and thus in your small and hateful mind it becomes pure evil.
JA, you need to take a long and hard look at yourself. If you are not a right-wing fascist shill posting on left-wing systems, you need to think about why you all too often come across that way.
@%<
WHAT *WERE* THOSE "HUNDREDS OF SITES", MORLEY???
MORELY, NOT ALL OF US GET PAID BY THE STATE OF ISRAEL TO SPEND ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT -- WITH NOTHING ELSE TO DO -- ONLINE POSTING ZIONIST PROPAGANDA ALL OVER THE INTERNET LIKE YOU DO.
AND WHY DID *YOU* HARASS THAT ANTI-ZIONIST JEWISH WOMAN WHO THOUGHT THAT YOU, MORLEY HARPER, WERE SO OBNOXIOUS AT VANCOUVER INDYMEDIA!?
FIRST YOU KEPT TRYING TO HIT ON HER, BUT WHEN SHE DIDN'T WANT YOUR SEXUAL ADVANCES, YOU STARTED HARASSING HER AND CALLING HER NASTY MISOGYNIST NAMES!!
THEN, THERE WAS THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN THAT YOU, MORLEY HARPER, THAT YOU KEPT RACIALLY SLURRING -- AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHY!! ...YOU JUST THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE BEING OBNOXIOUS TO HER.
AND REMEMBER HOW EVEN OTHER "LIBERAL ZIONIST" JEWS THOUGHT THAT YOU WERE OBNOXIOUS AND GAVE ZIONIST JEWS A REALLY BAD NAME!!? (AS IF IT WEREN'T ALREADY BAD ENOUGH!!)
MH: "... the ADL is on the correct side of this important issue of our time, that it understands minority issues, and that it is an ally opposing President Bush's and the religious right's conservative agenda."
THEN WHY DOES THE ADL TARGET BLACK POLITICIANS, LIKE CYNTHIA MCKINNEY AND EARL HILLIARD, WHO WON'T COW-TOW TO ISRAEL AND THE U.S. ISRAEL LOBBY?
WHY DOES THE ADL SUPPORT THE STATE OF ISRAEL, "BECAUSE GOD PROMISED PALESTINE TO THE JEWS"?
WHY DOES THE ADL WELCOME THE SUPPORT OF THE "CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS" -- INHERENTLY ANTI-SEMITIC -- WHO WANT ISRAEL TO EXIST SO THAT CHRIST WILL RETURN TO EARTH, FORCE THE JEWS TO CONVERT, AND CONDEMN TO HELL THOSE THAT WON'T.
BUT, FINALLY, MORLEY, I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE MY TIME WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A ***ZIONIST***!! -- A ***JEWISH*** WHITE-SUPREMACIST!!
A ***ZIONIST*** : A JEW WHO BELIEVES THAT ALL JEWS IN THE ENTIRE WORLD -- WHENEVER AND WHEREVER THEY WERE BORN -- FOR ALL ETERNITY -- HAVE A *NATURAL*, *AUTOMATIC*, *SUPERIOR*, AND "GOD-GIVEN" RIGHT TO FORM A NATION-STATE IN THE LAND OF PALESTINE, *OVER* THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIGENOUS PALESTINIAN PEOPLE!!
ZIONISM IS A RACIST IDEOLOGY MORALLY REJECTED BY MANY JEWS, INCLUDING SOME HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS -- AND INCLUDING SOME VERY PROMINENT ONES.
SO THE LAST THING I AM GOING TO DO IS TO TAKE HEED OF A ***JEWISH*** RACIST TRYING TO CALL SOMEONE **ELSE** A RACIST!!
MORLEY, YOU'RE A "JIM CROW JEW", A "RED-NECK JEW", AN "PRO-APARTHEID JEW"!! ...OR AS -- AND TO QUOTE -- THE PROMINENT JEWISH-AMERICAN SCHOLAR, PROFESSOR, AND AUTHOR NORMAN FINKELSTIEN CALLS ZIONIST JEWS LIKE YOU, "NAZIS IN YARMULKES"!!
Then why did you cross post this article on scores of sites on the net? By the post times, it took you a good portion of a day and night.
Nor is this a one-time phenomenon. You do it routinely.
Who pays you - or is it just a labor of hate?
To vent your racist hatist self?
JA> First you kept trying to hit on her, but when she didn't want your sexual advances. you started harrasing her and calling her nasty misogynist names!!
I of course did nothing of the sort.
As if I'd have a reason to hit on an anonymous woman posting on a BBS 2500 miles away from me (are you projecting? Are you that desperate?
VanIMC is still up. Let's see if you can come up with a link to support any of your numerous lies and false accusations.
JA> Why does the ADL target black politicians
It doesn't target black politicians. As you go on to say, it opposes candidates that disagree with its position.
Once again you can't see past your own seething hate. If the ADL spoke against Justice Thomas, would you also accuse it of "targeting blacks"?
Once again, all you can see about the ADL is that it is pro-Israel. At this point, your insipid hate kicks in and the entire organization, despite all of its good works, becomes - in your sick head - pure evil.
JA> indigenous Palestinian people
Jews are the indigenous "Palestinian" people, having lived on this land, continuously, for 3300 years. Only in recent decades did the recent Arab immigrants take that name.
But I'm not going to take your flame bait tangents, a transparent attempt to change the topic since you can't defend your anti-semitic hatred of the ADL.
Let's get back to what I said - almost all of which you ignored because you can't respond in any sensible fashion. Let's try this one point at a time and see if that doesn't overload you and blow your gaskets, forcing you to scream in all caps:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.
MH> [ADL] advocates in favor of gay rights
JA> Lots of affluent Jews who contribute to the adl are gay.
True or not, so what?
Ah, for you it's about the "affluent Jews", eh? As if non-affluent gay Jews do not contribute to the ADL? As if non-Jews and straights don't contribute to the ADL?
The fact that gays are comfortable within the ADL, the fact that the ADL is comfortable with gays, and the fact the ADL advocates in favor of equal rights for gays speaks much louder than your hatist racist nonsense.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In "JA a right wing fascist?," Morley Harper writes: "Were JA alive 70 years ago, he'd be running around not condemning hitler but regurgitating what hitler said as if it were a vindication of his own racist beliefs."
Actually, all indications are that JA would NOT have done that, since the REAL parallel between the 'Good Germans' of the Nazi regime and the 'Good Germans' of present-day America is that BOTH blindly fearfully soullessly accepted/accept their governments' extreme-right pathologies.
JA doesn't do that. JA isn't a 'Good German.'
JA vocally and courageously opposes the rampaging fascism taking over this country.
Which suggests that if he'd been in Germany in the '30s, he would have opposed that government's lunacy as well.
It's called 'free thought.' You should look into it. Nah, never mind -- you're not adequately equipped.
Fanatical Jewish supremacists, a.k.a. "Zionists," are absolutely on the villainous side now, both in Israel and in the U.S. Here, they are increasingly aligning themselves with some of the most fascistic elite elements in this country, e.g. the Bush administration, Richard Mellon Scaife's ideological empire, etc. Acknowledging this tendency in Zionist Jews and disliking them for it does not automatically make one a "fascist." In fact the whole definition of a "fascist" as "anyone who doesn't like Jews" is a really stupid canard, not to mention extremely dysfunctional in the context of the present. The REAL political definition of fascism is quite different, and the further Jews descend into the racist mania of Zionism, the more they themselves come to embody this REAL definition all the time. Yes, Jews can be fascists, too. In fact, this seems to be alarmingly likely now. And the 'Good Germans' of the present are their best buddies. The 'Holocaust Jews' of the 21st century, however, i.e. the designated scapegoats of the present mounting imperial mania, are not Jews at all, but Muslims and Arabs. And the 'Bad Germans' -- the Americans our present-day Hitlers would like to silence with bullets -- are the ones standing up and OPPOSING rampant anti-Arab, anti-Muslim racism. JA does that. Do you? How about the Zionist Jews? Are they in solidarity with these people, as would be consistent with their relentless 'Never Again' blatting, or do they despise them? Since you're certain to evade this question, I'll answer it for you: they despise them. This is MOST revealing. So by your "logic," ALL Jews should be opposed to the 'Good German' disease presently destroying American civic ideals, but in fact ZIONIST Jews are right at the center of all that, are mixing eagerly with its most prominent leaders. Of all the things that make your idiotic definition of "fascist" bogus and dangerously dysfunctional, this one's the Biggy.
It's not the 1940s any more, moron.
Hey, ya think it has something to do wth the islamic propensity towards murder?