Address the Root Causes of War, Support Reparations!!

Get over it.
What about muslims. We are terrorised by Americans.

To pay reperations would assume blacks are worse off here than they would have been if their ancestors were left in Africa. I've been to Africa and it is generally sucks for the majority of people there.

This will not stand up in court. It is an obvious money grab..A joke.

The black community in America has other serious issued to put time towards, this is a wombat.

Like Trent, you mean?

Lott is a moron. Judging somebody racist on words rather than action is questionable though.

Who knows if he's racist, he is definitely an idiot.

Higher education, job equality, etc are far more valuable in my opinion than taking money from insurance companies and the tax payer at large..This really is a huge joke. Sue mcDonalds because your fat, sue the english for oppression of irish catholics in NY. Let it go..

Personally I buy the excuse he was just trying to make a decrepit old man feel honored. The "meaning" unintentionally escaped at the level of Lott's subconscious. Every politician worth his salt triple filters words meant for public consumption. What the world was momentarily privy to was a rare glimpse into the rotten soul lurking beneath the otherwise polished exterior of a penultimately powerful man.

I am totally against the public display of the righteous and just execution of murderers and rapists. As for reparations , they should be deducted from the amount owed your educators and benevolent benefactors. That leaves around three trillion dollars due. Pay up , deadbeats.

"...What the world was momentarily privy to was a rare glimpse into the rotten soul lurking beneath the otherwise polished exterior of a penultimately powerful man." Succintly put. My brother tells , Bill Maher said something similar about Lott. If anyone knows that sometimes you say What You Mean, it would be him and his injudicious but honestly felt reaction to 9/11.
Lost his show over it, didn't he?

and if they're not righteous and just executions--

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWwells.htm

(Ida B. Wells made) "an investigation into lynching and discovered during a short period 728 black men and women had been lynched by white mobs. Of these deaths, two-thirds were for small offences such as public drunkenness and shoplifting."

Slavery is an abomination, but no one seems to wanna realize that the slaves in Africa were captured by other Africans!!! It started with POW's and crimminals, and then moved on to capturing free citizens. Now, the world fueled demand, but if there were no local sellers to begin with, what then? and slavery is still there today in some places!!

Everyone knows that SOME slaves were captured by other Africans, particularly in the early part of the slave trade (when demand increased, Europeans began to engage in it themselves as well).
But what on earth difference does it make who enslaved them? What's your point? It was OK ? There's no justification for anything at all in that particular argument.

My point is that shouldn't they be suing African nations and ex-colonial powers for allowing the operation of slavery networks in there lands?

Well, they can't sue the African nations because the 'administrations' - eg the chiefs - are not a government anymore, it would sort of be like trying to blame the Italians for something the Romans did.
The colonial powers, probably, at least England anyway. They still have the same authority in England - the Parliament - as they did at the time. Maybe France, too, if any of it had taken place after the Revolution.

-- The arrival of Columbus in so-called North America marked the beginning of the white world's assault on humanity.

WRONG!

North American tribes have been killing each other for 30,000 years before Columbus. War was a way of life. After Columbus, wars are few and far between. Try to learn at least a few historical facts.

White guy, you truly are stupid as a cow.

I'd like you to explain how conflicts between inhabitants of the New World made the beggining of the European assault occur earlier than Columbus. It would be an interesting explanation, I'm sure.

"Slavery is an abomination, but no one seems to wanna realize that the slaves in Africa were captured by other Africans!!!"

"no one seems to wanna realize" ?!? you've got to be kidding.i've been talking to white people about reparations for 10 years. if i had a dime for every time i've had to hear that tired lame excuse for white complicity with the crimes against africa that built america and made us the richest "working class" on the planet, we'd probably have already raised the 3.1 trillion.

And by some perverted Hegelian mathematics, I'm sure you're going to tell us that America has the poorest ruling class. You'll go on to explain this is all true because your parents could afford to buy you a BRANDNEW Honda Accord and a BRANDNEW Playstation 2 for Christmas. Doormatt, go back to selling weenies to atone for your sins by being born white.

Anit-Matt

anti-matt .. you fail the reading comprehension test, spectacularly. Unless you can explain how he would be saying America has both the richest and poorest working class in the world.

Here is his exact quote:

"...that built america and made us the richest "working class" on the planet..."

Muslims have been terrorizing N africa, Europe, and the mid east for 1400 years. It's time to get your asses kicked. Mohammed, if you took the time to read your own koran, you'd realize what a book of hate it is. Islam is anything but peacefull. I don't know why you lie about it, perhaps it's because you've been brainwashed from birth.Us westerners, we are more educated than you, so we can see through the lies of islam. I can educate you as well, mohammed, goto http://www.faithfreedom.org ,and begin learning the truth of islam. You'll be a better person for it.
I suppose, some Black americans still crying about the past, do not realize that muslims continue with the black slave market to this day in sudan.

Muslims have been terrorizing N africa, Europe, and the mid east for 1400 years. It's time to get your asses kicked. Mohammed, if you took the time to read your own koran, you'd realize what a book of hate it is. Islam is anything but peacefull. I don't know why you lie about it, perhaps it's because you've been brainwashed from birth.Us westerners, we are more educated than you, so we can see through the lies of islam. I can educate you as well, mohammed, goto http://www.faithfreedom.org ,and begin learning the truth of islam. You'll be a better person for it.
I suppose, some Black americans still crying about the past, do not realize that muslims continue with the black slave market to this day in sudan.

Muslims have been terrorizing N africa, Europe, and the mid east for 1400 years. It's time to get your asses kicked. Mohammed, if you took the time to read your own koran, you'd realize what a book of hate it is. Islam is anything but peacefull. I don't know why you lie about it, perhaps it's because you've been brainwashed from birth.Us westerners, we are more educated than you, so we can see through the lies of islam. I can educate you as well, mohammed, goto http://www.faithfreedom.org ,and begin learning the truth of islam. You'll be a better person for it.
I suppose, some Black americans still crying about the past, do not realize that muslims continue with the black slave market to this day in sudan.

hey keven (so called anti-doormatt), instead of trolling for a fight with me, why don't you state your position on the subject of the thread -- that is, reparations. are reparations owed african people? whats your opinion?

"I suppose, some Black americans still crying about the past, do not realize that muslims continue with the black slave market to this day in sudan."

actually slavery still exists in the u.s. the 13th amendment codifies slavery: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. "

except as punishment for a crime. so right after slavery was "abolished," all of a sudden laws were passed that deliberately targeted african people, such as "vagrancy laws." vagrancy meant you didn't have a job. so they could lock you up and rent your labor to the guy who just a few years before was a slavemaster.

but its ok. its not becuase you're black, its because you're a "criminal." never mind that nowadays those to words are all-but synonymous in the u.s., with over one million african men in prison -- 10% of the population. so slavery is still going strong in america.

"The slave trade made the English rich, certain families and businesses in particular. For a minutely detailed tracking of the money, right up to the mid twentieth century, read *Capitalism & Slavery* by Eric Eustace Williams. ISBN: 0807844888"

I don't have alot of money for books and I owe the local library a bit for one that I accidentally left on a bus. I'm not a big fan of actually reading AT the library, either. Are there are any online resources regarding this?

Are you suggesting that all the African Men are innocent of the crimes they have been convicted of and should be set free simply for the color of their skin?

i'm suggesting that the prison system inside the u.s. functions as a concentration camp system which targets african people and which the coercion of their slave labor is a component. i'm suggesting that the prison system is a crime directed against african people inside the u.s. for which just compensation; i.e.; reparations is due.

but yes, i'm happy to suggest "being guilty of committing crimes" has nothing to do with whether or not you end up in prison in the u.s. if you're not clear on this, go and find out how many enron execs are doing time for their crimes.

lastly a question for you, isolationist: are you suggesting that the gross disproportion of african people inside u.s. prisons versus white people is a consequence of some predisposition towards criminality in black people?

If I have to pay reparations, then I want my monies worth, I want a slave!

People interested in this question should come tonight at 7pm to the Fellowship Hall of Humanity, 390 - 27th St, Oakland, CA (between Broadway and Telegraph and not far from 19th St BART) where we'll be showing a video on why white people should support reparations and we will discuss reparations in the context of addressing the root causes of US war and violence.

You can call me at 510-658-7619 if you want more info or email uhurureparations [at] yahoo.com

Yoe say islam means peace? Why is it then, that islam, since it's creation by Mohammed, has been nothing but 1400 years of war? if muslims were peacefull, they would still be concentrated around mecca, and not have invaded medina, (jews) and onward through history to the whole mid east, north africa, europe, etc. Yes, there were christian crusades, and the perpose of them was to stop the muslim advance. Face it, the Koran teaches kill, kill, kill, "take not a jew or christian as a friend, for they support each other" What about the 80 million hindus muslims has slaughtered over the past 200 years? how about muslims in bosnia that turned in the jews from that region to hitler? I'm sorry, abdul, islam does not mean peace by any streach of the imagination. read your own koran, abdul, and learn also, that even today, muslims invading sudan take blacks as slaves, export them to saudi arabia. There is your modern day slave trader, I'm suprized black america isn't shouting loudly about it. Rather, they join islam, This is truely amazing, you would figure black america would have learned from history, but, aparently not, they have "whitey blindness". At any rate, abdul goto http://www.faithfreedom.org and really take time, and learn what your koran says, it is a site made by an ex muslim, Dr. Ali sina. I'm sure you'll find what your koran really says there, and, links to other sites where you can find all the storys for all the sura's in your hate-filled koran. America has woken up, We know islam is in a state of constant war, "Jihad" for as it says in the koran, there are 2 worlds, islam, and the enemy, peace comes in the koran when the whole world is under the "wing of islam" .

If you think the Crusades were to "stop the Muslim advance" you need to read up a bit more. The Crusaders were on an adventure. This is backed up by the fact they couldn't even wait to get to the middle east before they started pillaging Christian territories. Even when they got there, the first victims were the Christian inhabitants.
Also - Islam's period of expansion had been over for some time by the time of the Crusades ...

actually slavery still exists in the u.s. the 13th amendment codifies slavery: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. "

This actually aplies to the prison system, where forced labor is applied to crimminals of society, notice, it doesn't exclude whites.

Also, why have you not adressed the ongoing muslim slave trade, do you wish to "steer away" from the obvious fact of today? Who cares about the slave trade of the britts 300 years ago, it isn't a practice 'today' as it is for islam. It should be stopped no matter who is doing it, and it seems, only muslims do it 'today'

Quit repeating yourself. You already said that about a dozen comments up.

http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6981/defense.htm

here are some answers to your crusade question, a real study of history, written by real proffesors, might enlighten you. The crusades were in fact, a defensive measure, and they did not pillage christian stronholds, there were some roouge crusaders that pillages some jewish communities, but these were the exeption to the rule of Pope bernard, who in fact ordered, that the jews were not to be harmed. The crusades did fail to hold lands from the muslims, but they did succed in creating the western culture we now enjoy. History is fun to read, and perhaps you will enjoy those links I have posted, open your mind, don't close it by what some clerics told you

If the prisons system is set up to target African Americans, then why not focus on their leaders (Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Kweisi Mfume) instead of the everyday man? You’ll do more to keep a community down if you remove their leaders than someone who plays a less significant role in the community.

And for every Enron Exec, I can point to an OJ Simpson or Ray Lewis. There are plenty of people out there who avoid jail not because of the color of their skin, but because of the strings they can pull. I’m sure if a Cary Stayner had some strings to pull, he would have in order to avoid the Death Penalty.

As towards why there are more Blacks than Whites in jail, the answer is simple. It has nothing to do with a “predisposition towards criminality” (and I applaud you at your attempt at race baiting) it all has to do with the community one grew up in and the influences within that community. Unfortunately, in several black communities there is a strong criminality influence and also the glorification of crime. If you want to bring economics into the picture, then you will need to explain the crime rate difference between a lower white income community (such as a coal mining, steel milling, or auto manufacturing community) to those of a black community.

Dibs on Halle Berry!

you think everyone against your nationalist, racist politics is someone called "keven". Who's that, you're alter-ego? Most of the people in the bay area who have a brain hate the thugs of Uhuru and their guilt mongering that makes churces seem like soft peddlers.

FDM

not everyone, keven. there's a handful of crusty old klu-klux-kommunist types who hate the uhuru movement. and you are one of them. but you're easy to recognize because of your juvenile style of name calling and your obsession with vehicles. if i'm wrong and you're not keven, give up your real name -- if you're not too cowardly.

for those who are unaware of him, keven keeting's also likes the name "nestor mahkno" he never puts his real name to his posts, and will change his identity to make himself seem like more than one person. but as i said, you can recognize him by the obnoxious school yard name calling within his rants, and of course, his hatred for SUVs.

keven, a few years ago, initiated a campaign to keep the mission district s.f. gentrified only by black-garbed, downwardly-mobile, bike messenger types -- the first wave of white settlers in the '90s. to invade that mexican community as a consequence of the burgeoning “dot-economy” of that time.

at the point where white people who were more direct benefactors of the dot com economy started eyeballing the mission district, keven launched a campaign to vandalize vehicles parked around his prized neighborhood which he deemed "too rich" for his clique.

Of course the concerns of the Mexican residents, for whom both sectors of white people represented a new invasion and very real threat on their homes and lives, not just on their "hipster" neighborhood, we’re not an overt considerations in keven’s vandalism campaign.

Of course, however conscious or not of his impact on the Mexican community, his "anarchist-only" vision of the mission district would serve him in two ways: one, he would intimidate his "yuppie" adversaries from coming to his prized neighborhood through attacking their fancy rides.

secondly: he would encourage a higher police presence which would help to further ethnically cleanse the mexican community, thereby making more room for him and his left wing, downwardly mobile friends.

with these kinds of politics, its no surprise he hates the uhuru movement.

Yeah, this guy goes by a bunch of names. He often switches sides from a neo-nazi holocaust denier, to a zionist. A truly disturbed individual. The one true way to spot him out: he has a profound ignorance of history, and THAT is a touchy point with him. He believes alot of sensationalist bullshit about it that he reads on the Internet.

matthew, does this mean you have a 'nice ride' and would feel threatened being white and cruising through the mission? if not, why all the talk about it? and the last time i was in the mission, there were lots of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Costa Ricans and many, many other Latinos. or are they just all "Mexicans" to you? if you go to chinatown, do you have the same problem not being able to tell if they are Japanese, Koreans or Chinese? Or all Asians just Chinese to you?

And did you know that san francisco's first Jewish cemetary was in the mission? so being informed of that fact, is it still 'Mexican' to you? did you know that it was German and then Irish before becoming Latino and that many of those whitey's that you so much despise have lived there all along. does that still make it Mexican to you? do you even know what you're talking about?

and since your strawman seems to be someone called keven keeting, how can we be sure that he isn't your own creation and that you make posts in his name just to posit another white person you can denounce and go around hating?

Rats! Halle Berry was a great call. I should have thought of that. I guess I'll take Janet Jackson.

I just want to say that I am deeply committed to equality between the races. I went on Black Entertainment Television last night and clarified my position. All the colored people there agreed that I am one of the best friends the Negro has ever had.

To this end, I would like to announce my new MTV hip hop show, "Yo, Trent Raps." Every Monday night at 7. Don't miss it!

Jim, my brutha, I'll see your Janet Jackson, and raise you Tyra Banks. But let's be cool and save Maxine Waters for Brother Trent. The boy needs the help!

so to this matthew from the uhuru house, all latinos are mexican. what a fucking racist. i wonder if that's the uhuru party line. is wendy instructed to think the same way? if, as i suspect, they are told to say what the organization tells them, what if they stand up to its racism? i was indecisive about reparations, but if this group promoting it disses on all the latinos, i don't trust that this isn't some recruiting tactic that even they don't believe in. i think it's wrong to see the world as only black and white. now that's racist. what about all the others?

why do these people who i assume are obviously white, go saying racist things about everyone but blacks? isn't that just racist hypocracy? i think if anyone says something racist, they should be censored from this site. that includes the uhuru house, who if matthew speaks for them, are racist against latinos. i say don't allow them to post here and ban them from sf indy media. they don't really contribute anything to the list except recruiting appeals and racist statements where their ideology is the right one and everyone else is wrong. this isn't the place for them to do that.

let me see if i've got this straight: i'm a "racist" who should be censored from indymedia because i recognize the mission district as a mexican community under seige. but its cool that kevin would incite the police to attack that community in his white turf war with "yuppies" as long as he's sensitive to use the term "latinos" while doing it.

as all of california, the "mission district" is land stolen from the indigneous population, in this case mexicans. mexicans were here long before jews, irish or germans. the reason its called the mission district is because in the 1600s it was the site where missionaries set up shop to commit genocide against the indigenous population.

"latino" is a white term, no different then "hispanic." it defines all "south american" peoples as one group based on the fact that they were conquered by nations of white europeans -- namely, the spanish and portuguese -- who happened to speak latin-based languages. i never use that ugly racist term, however, i recognize most people use the term "latino" do so out of ignorance and should be forgiven and educated.

for more on keven and his ethnic cleansing campaign/white turf war, see:

http://www.infoshop.org/myep.html

Were the Wintun, Miwok, Pomo, Hupa, Tipai-Ipai, and a dozen more Native Americans tribes that dominate California before the Spanish arrived and stole the land from them. True “Mexicans” (i.e. Mayans and Aztecs) never made it this far north or even past Central Mexico.

The whole “this land was stolen from the Mexico” is pure propoganda created by separatist groups such as La Raza looking for reparations as well.

matthew, are you this keven or kevin or are you part of the mission yuppie eradication project? is it a front of uhuru?

tim

<i say don't allow them to post here and ban them from sf indy media.>

BAN them? No way! I love knocking the "matthews" and the "Isolationists" around. They're such bozos they make a mockery of their own views. Give them a good argument and they flee like the yellow-bellied racist scum they are.

I have yet to see anyone “knock” me around or “flee” from a debate. Sounds nothing more than posturing to me.

Correct. I've yet to do it. I'll put you on my list and pound the crap out of you as soon as I can. Thanks for bringing this oversight to my attention.

First, the Spanish, not the Mexicans were the first explorers/settlers of California. And the original inhabitants of the bay area were the Ohlone, Pomo and Miwoks, among other tribes as a previous poster pointed out.

Second, if you call a Salvadoran a Mexican, its like me calling Matthew a Canadian. If he is one, that's OK, but since I assume he's an African-American, I think he would take great offense. And maybe its just PC, but I have friends from Mexico and Central America and they variously prefered to be called Chicanos, Latinos and Latinas, and don't seem so hung up on the labels as people on this list. So if Mathew is part Mextizo, I'll respect whatever he wants to be called.

Uhuru door-Matt claims that Kevin Keatings anti-yuppie campaign some how brought the police down on the "Mexican" community in the mission. Despite his ignorant idea that every brown person in the mission is a Mexican, he somehow ignores that not one Latino in the mission is making his same complaint. I'm sure the "Mexican community" is really thankful that uhuru idiots are defending them.

Further door Matt thinks Kevin Keating is making all the anti-uhuru comments--Sorry Matty lots of people think Uhuru are kooks. I just noticed that Alex Vitale, who was assaulted for no reason by uhuru, posted on the frankinstein thread.

Matthew wrote: "i recognize most people use the term "latino" do so out of ignorance and should be forgiven and educated."

Thank you, I will come to your re-education camp.

What about your term "Africans?" are you refering to the people from the Mediterranean region of Africa? Lybians, Egyptians, Morrocans and the other light-brown skinned, curly-haired guys there? Or, the guys who live in the islands of the south west (they look like Indians)?

Also, the word "Africa" comes from Latin, not an African-based language.

So, I am ignorant if I use "Latino" to refer to the light brown-to-fair skinned, spanish speaking guys who live in the mission,

But I can say "African" -- a word that is just as much a generalization, and also coming from one of the great Oppressor "Nations" of history--The Roman Emprire.

Please clarify: i am confused. Thank you.

Craig

PS Is it true that one of the platforms of Uhuru is that all African-Americans in jail are "Prisioners of War" and should be released immediately, unconditionally?

So stop insinuating that everyone anyway critical of the Uhuru House is him. And how does he spell his name? I think it's immature on your part to try to diss him by varying the spelling of his name. Find out what's correct and be consistent. Your group esteems itself as holding up the moral high ground--and morality and christian-like guilt seems to be your group's M.O.--so act like the goody-goody guilty whites that you are.

And yes, lots of people think the Uhurus are nutcases. Others have made a good case that you're nothing better than homophobic thugs. Either way, you're spending all this energy defending pretty stupid political ideas and of course people are going to criticize you because you are WRONG. So Matthew, stop the name calling and start repenting for your guilt and leave me alone and stop calling me someone who I am not.

Tim

was confirmed. Here it is: (let's see how Matthew tries to lie his way out of this one!)

FNB and Uhuru
by Alex Vitale • Friday December 06, 2002 at 01:08 PM
alvgc [at] yahoo.org


To Martin B and Tricky,

By a wierd coincidence I happened to run across this discussion and thought I would just confirm Tricky's report. I along with several members of ACT UP were attacked by Uhuru House members at a post-Rodney King event. The attack was planned and directed specifically at ACT UP. My understanding is that it was part of a 30 year old dispute between some members of ACT UP, who were also involved with Prairie Fire. To make a long story short, Uhuru is more than willing to engage in politically motivated violence when it suits their long or short term interests. I was attacked because I happened to be standing there as they destroyed the ACT UP table and assaulted its members.

My assessment then and now is that Uhuru shares more of the characteristics of a cult than a political group. Cults are perfectly capable of having and articulating political positions that some of us might agree with. What makes them a cult is their internal structure. Uhuru has a cult of personality, a complete lack of internal democracy and a clear tendency to put the goal of organizational stability far above any other outside or political goals.

Even if they aren't a "cult," they're politics are hardly what the world needs right now. Nationalism and racialized politics are what have gotten us into this mess, and I hardly think they're going to get us out of it. There are plently of organizations of color in the bay area working on important issues using more radical and democratic methods of organizing that don't rely on the denigration of other human beings to achieve organizational coherence or political change.

there a pretty nasty crew. not much different than the "your black muslim bakery" goons.

Laurel

there a pretty nasty crew. not much different than the "your black muslim bakery" goons.

Laurel

Uhuru Matthew:

Do I have to give part of my salary to Uhuru if I want to join?

Can I join if I don't agree with all of your tenets?

Is it a democratic organization: can i have a vote in how funds are spent? Can i see the organization books anytime I want?

I don't agree with everything you stand for, only some of the stuff. Can I still join? For example, I don't see the US government as engaging in an active conspircacy of genocide against african americans. But, I think reparations could be a good thing, depending on how the money was spent. Would you be interested in hearing my ideas about this, or would i be shut down?

Where can I download the application from?

Thanks

Craig

god, even someone wants to join your group. could he be the "keven" of your imagination. or did you post that to give credibility to your group? or are you really posting things under different names to polarize things----the anti-uhuru messages to give yourself a strawman to attack and the sympathetic ones, like craig's, to make it seem like lots of people are clamouring to join.

tim

well tim, you've got me figured out. yup. guilty as charged. i'm posting all the messages here -- the pro-uhuru, the anti-uhuru and the ones where i represent myself -- where i answer questions which i orignated and defend the uhuru movement from slander and other attacks which i also initiated.

however its not surprising that you figured me out, since i'm YOU AS WELL AND I POSTED YOUR MESSAGES ALSO!!!! that's right tim, i'm going to tell the whole truth now. lets let the whole cat out of the bag, shall we? i not only post pro-uhuru, anti-uhuru messages and even some nuetral ones -- all with different identities.

i also post messages from another alter-ego, "tim." that's right tim, i'm coming clean. in these "tim" posts, i cleverly expose my own strategy, to further confuse everyone and make them think there are people in the world, besides me, who post to indymedia.

so admit it tim, you don't really exist do you?

craig:

unfortunately, the uhuru movement is a lacking web presence. we are working on that. in the meantime if you're interested, we have rallies every wednesday night at the uhuru house. you are more than welcome to attend to ask your questions. if interested email me at thew94610 [at] yahoo.com.

the type of government that the uhuru movement generally functions under is democratic centralism. to be a general member of the uhuru movement the only tenets you have to agree on are: you believe in social justice for the african community, and that african people have the right to lead their own struggle for liberation. that's the basis of unity of the uhuru movement.

neither you or i can dictate how reparations we make get used. after all, they'd no longer be reparations if that were the case. however, the uhuru movement has fundraisers for particular things, like renovating the uhuru house for example, and if you donate to, or participate in a fundraiser for a particular campaign, you can be rest assured that you will know where your time and/or money goes.

however, i think if you agree with reparations, you'd have to also agree its not really the place of the debtor to dictate how the one he is indebted to uses the resources owed.

how about addressing Alex Vitale's post?

how about telling us how Uhuru "reparations" are dispensed?

If it's not correct to tell the "indebted" how to spend the reparations lucre, that begs the question: how do you determine who is deserving? It sounds like it might be a bit colonialist for the Uhuru House to make that determinination itself. Is their a political test? Or do you hand out money to anyone claiming African ancestry? If the latter, how much do people get?

some one on another post asked this question----maybe it was your own question under another name and you don't need to clarify anything for yourself

are you african-american or mexican? you seemed to imply both and that you don't want to be called "latino" or "chicano" what gives?

and why don't you answer alex vitale's post? don't start saying that it was invented by "keven" because alex said he lives in nyc and found a thread about the incident by chance

are you going to tell us that he----and others who saw it----are all lying? if it came to choosing between them and you, i'd say in a mili-second-----THEM

tim

tim

first of all, i had to ask around the uhuru movement, since the situation in question happened over 10 years ago, before i became involved in uhuru.

i've been hearing this story around town forever, but always in the context of "the uhuru movement hates gays. the uhuru movement attacked act-up in a park a million years ago because uhuru is homophobic." since i knew THAT was bullshit, i've always blown off the story in its entirety. but it keeps getting brought up and brought up and brought up and brought up and brought up. so i finally did some research around the campfire in the uhuru movement to find out what those who have been around a little longer than me had to say on the matter.

it seems at this rodney king rally at bobby hutton park, during, or shortly after, the african-community rebellions that swept through the country in 92, the african people's socialist party, which leads the uhuru movement, made a sharp criticism of some of the white people there. the criticism was that these white people will come into the african community only to impose their leadership on the community, but never in solidarity with the community.

certainly this criticism applies to the thuggish, brutal, ideological-imperialist "prarie fire organization" that alex vitale mentions.

in response to this, some african people physically confronted the white people who were being criticised by the uhuru movement at the rally. people were shoved around and punched. a table may have been knocked over. the people in question, while african community folks, were not affiliated in any organizational way with the uhuru movement. they had never been to an uhuru movement meeting, and we didn't know them directly.

and while no one was hurt badly from the altercation as far as we know, the damage caused to their fragile egos -- and the collective ego of the white left -- was monumental. thus, we are still talking about it 10+ years later.

however, it would be unfair not to stress that the people who did the ass kicking did react to the criticism mentioned above, which was raised from the podium by biko lumumba, a well-loved and respected african man who headed up the oakland branch of the uhuru movement at that time. biko was instrumental in organizing the thousands-strong, african-dominated, uhuru-led march through oakland after huey newton was murdered a few years prior to this incident in 1989. so he and his words would carry weight in the african community as they apparently did in this situation.

so while we weren't the ones doing the swinging, asses were kicked 10 years ago, and the uhuru movement was involved. thats the story.

now that the uhuru movement's side on this matter is on the table, i have to say, alex -- and i didn't need the uhuru movement to tell me this -- its profound arrogance and foolishness that white people would be rolling into black neighborhoods during a national african rebellion, thinking we could qoute marx or hand out condoms or whatever our foolhardy agenda was back then.

you are lucky you weren't killed. it's a war zone in black communities in this country -- and during the rebellions of 91'?! sometimes i think reading too much marx, or nestor machno, or whoever gives us white people pudge at the moment, makes us stoopid.

what? would you have gone up to nat turner and his crew back in the 1831 and qouted marx while they were killing every white person - man, woman or child in their way? (of course marx wasn't around yet but you get my point.) you think because you've read a couple of chapters of "das kapital" or some shit you can walk into the african community like some white worker messiah? you've been watching too much "barber shop," dude; listening to too much eminem. there's no such thing as a white black person -- certainly not when cities are going up in flames. white people do not work in black barber shops, aaron. it just doesn't happen. its hollywood and mtv. wake up.

ok so you did it and it was stoopid. we all make mistakes. but then to spend the next 10 years crying about it. christ! "waaah! the uhuru movement beat us up when we went into east oakland during a rebellion. 'black stalinists' beat me up and turned over my table! their a cult!!!! waaah! mommy!" sheesh. grow up. you don't have to be such a pathetic pissant. let it go.

and lastly, one thing i'd like to point out in alex vitale's post: i keep hearing the "uhuru movement attacked act-up" because we are "homophobic." like i said, different versions of this park story have been coming into my periphery for years, with this homophobic thing as a central theme. as i said, i always knew this was nonsense, and doubted the story was true in any respect based on this bullshit slander. however, from alex's post and my own research, its clear something did happen, and a primary political problem with the white people in the park was their history in the group prarie fire. talk about thuggery; prairie fire once coordinated an unsuccessful assassination attempt on the chairman of the uhuru movement, omali yeshitela.

so there you have it. its late and i was going to do this some other time; i'm committed to get up early to sell wonderfull scrumptious uhuru pies as reparations tomorrow, and then its off to a white left meeting to stop the current manifestation of the 500 year old war thats going on in iraq. so i need rest and now its late and i guess i've once, again, been "uhuru-baited." but i'm glad i did give in to the temptation, cuz now its typed up, notwithstainding the mountain of typos and other grammar problem that i'll only see when i hit 'add my comment' and reread.

so, now i can copy it and paste it whenver this pathetic "the uhuru movement beat me up in a park ten years ago! waaah!" story resurfaces, as it is prone to do, ad naseum.

good night sweethearts. and i wish you all a hearty UHURU!

so this guy, who i remember from sf more than 10 years ago gets beat up. he ain't from prairie fire----who are gaining creds in my eyes for thinking of peeling omali from his suv so he cant be cruising clearwater anymore----and is from food not bombs, that doormatt seems to not want to piss off by denouncing them----which by being mostly white and by his logic worthy of getting there asses kicked. alex is not at the act-up table, but in front of it. i was there and didn't see the beginning of it, but heard lots of yelling and definitely shit like "fucking faggots!" and many later from the african american oakland community saying "uhuru did it."

so doormatt, the next time theres a nationalist riot are you gonna put yourself up on the sacrificial lamb-block and atone for all us whiteys and our sins? youre such a fucking dumbass. the la uprising was probably the most diverse rebellion ever to happen in america. at least it was in the bay area, where i saw it and participated in it first hand. but if you learn how to read something besides your own groups propaganda, youd realize that of the more than 16,000 people arrested in l.a., over 10,000 were latino. now diss on me you guilt-pronated illiterate piece of cracker trailer trash, but these people werent just swept up watching from the sidewalk. where the fuck were you, cruising hoes in your nice "ride".

and why dont the african socialist party handlers/leaders let you sell weenies anymore? cant count the change i figure. i dont start accusing me of "attacking" uhuru because im not----there politics and brutality speak for themselves----im telling you that your an apologist for a cult and you distort reality and fact to suit your allegiance to an ideology. you can diss anarchos and commies til the cows come home, but at least many of those people have broken with the brand of religiosity that your cult and the guilt it glorifies represents.

>would you have gone up to nat turner and his crew back in the 1831 and qouted marx while they were killing every >white person - man, woman or child in their way? (of course marx wasn't around yet but you get my point.) you >think because you've read a couple of chapters of "das >kapital" or some shit you can walk into the african community like>
----------------------------
Wait... could you clarify what uhuru is? I thought it was the an African people's socialist party group.
Coming to this as an outsider, when I hear that name, I would possibly assume that you guys would be marxist, and thus, that you might be more likely to have read 'Kapital'. I've never read Kapital, and one can easily be a socialist w/o having read any of that, or not being able to read for that matter. You can be an anarchist w/o having read any of the major works too. But I don't understand why you would be accusing us, the other people typing in this thread, of having read 'Das Kapital'. As far as I have perceived, there aren't very many communists who speak up at sf.indymedia nor are there many particularly large communist groups around the bay area, unlike the 60s (maybe if we exclude the puffed up numbers of the IAC).
Does Uhuru have any particular socialist books or documents that you guys hold in high regard?

BTW, anecdotally, a friend who is an african-american bicycle messenger (for 15 years) and who grew up on San Pablo immediately adjoining a liquor store that was some violent land in the crack wars of the 80s, said that he thinks that uhuru are kind of crackpots.

This is to follow up on the Helga posting. I've been reading with horror the Yusef Bey story that was suppressed in the African-American community and the larger Oakland political community for so long. It wasn't whites doing the suppressing or jacking up of people, it was Bey's own vigilante army of goons and them covering stuff with their connections all through the city establishment, even with the pigs. But the covering up of facts is similar to Matthew's obfuscating of facts. He has said that Alex Vitale was beaten up, not because he was part of Food Not Bombs or near the Act-Up table, but because whites were invading the turf of African-Americans. So it was something of a "racewar" in his mind. Does that mean that he hid for cover until the whole thing blew over. I don't know where he's from, but did he leave the 'hood and go back to some unknown place of origin? And the Prarie Fire Organizing Committee no longer exists and hasn't for some time, but they once tried to kill the leader of the Uhuru cult of personality. So, for the mere crime of standing near those people, Matthew says that it was justified that Alex got his "ass kicked." So white people, apparently, were open targets at that event: they could have their "asses kicked" for merely being white in Oakland-which is straigh up racism-or they could be in the part of the park where, supposedly, some Prarie Fire assassins were and deserve to be beat up for that. Even if Matthew denies the connection between Uhuru and Bey, they are only slightly different variations on the same theme. And the deepest analysis Matthew can come up with about Bey's organization and his history of child molestation is that his bakery makes yummy vegan burgers. Matthew puts on the bowtie too, to sling bean pies in the 'hood to atone for his sins. If he was a couple shades darker, how soon would it be before he was selling the "Final Call" too?

And Matthew never tells us what, if any, work he does. But bicycle messengers are a target of his scorn. Now they might be mostly white, so does that mean the African-American, Latino and Asian ones get off the hook? Or is this type of labor somehow "bad" but vending soul food or nationalist newpapers on the corner isn't? And I've had those bean pies and they are nasty. And the guilt that goes with the pitch is pretty lame too. But I don't put that version of petty capitalism above or below any other type of charity pitches based on guilt. I don't put Matthew below the Santa bedecked Salvation Army man or woman clanging the bell.

And, as Helga asked, is anything "approved" by the elites on up in the parent group, the African's People's Socialist Party, that Uhuru is the white "front" for? Do they give you permission to read anything NOT written by Omali Yeshiteli? If Marx isn't O.K. with Omali, does that mean it's not O.K. with you? You bash anyone who reads Marx, but is it because that's what you are told to say or have you ever read Marx yourself and found something objectionable? I'm sure if a party dicatate was sent down from on high, saying something about Shakespeare being a running dog lackey for white colonialism, you'd start going around accusing other whites of reading Shakespeare and asking them if they would've gone up to Nat Turner in 1831and quoted Shakespeare to him as he was killing whites. Would you denounce Shakespeare because your leader told you to?

And finally, I'm not clear about who you are Matthew. Are you an official or semi-official spokesperson for Uhuru? Do they hire you to just sell those nasty pies for them? And someone brought this up, are you Mexican or part Mexican? Is that why you object to being called Latino? And fess up, is your job (if you even have one besides selling pies) somehow superior to a bicycle messengers? How?

Confused

its profound arrogance and foolishness that white people would be rolling into black neighborhoods during a national african rebellion,
you are lucky you weren't killed. it's a war zone in black communities in this country -- and during the rebellions of 91'?!
-------------------------------------------------
Egads.
You know, strategically I think it would make sense to permit white allies (who aren't trying to step in and take over, like the RCP and similar groups have done) to be present. What exactly were these ACT-up people doing? What event was this?
You know, the 2nd Wounded Knee is a good example of a real armed rebellion where government troops had armed vehicles and machine guns and were shooting away and a few thousand indians and allies at Wounded Knee in the early 70s for a few months. The indians mainly had crappy old rifles from 1920, and a few knives. But accounts say that plenty of white, black, puerto rican friends snuck in during the nights, and were welcomed. They didn't try to take over. When white fbi agents snuck in, they just took their guns away, gave them some breakfast, and walked with them out of the area - Leonard Crow dog did about three years in jail for this incident too: http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/m/e/mec127/crowdog.htm
Strategically it makes sense to do this because african americans are only 7% in this state, and indians are 1%, and so even if the most marginal 5% of europeans are antiracists, that still is helpful for bolstering your numbers and power.

I was talking with above mentioned bike messenger last week, not too focus on him too much, and the conversation mainly strayed to Yusuf bey. He and his church lady mother both hold that he should be executed, because even though they're anti death penalty, they make an exception for adults who hurt children. I was saying that that goes too far, but that they could probably rely on the default of prison guards encouraging racism, and also keeping prisoners fighting each other, so molesters usually fare badly in prison. We were wondering whether Bey will have any political power or reputation in prison, because a lot of people are still standing behind him outside here, or will he go in and immediately be reduced to the level of a typical abject child molester.

Like I've been saying uhuru are bunch of thugs-- Matts post says it all. Its funny how Matt was at first was denying the incident even took place -- now he parrots (Matt had to check with Omali for the correct political line) that Alex Vitale deserved it for simply his skin color. Matt your a pathetic dumbass. I hope one day you get what you preach.

During the Rodney King rebellion there was both racial conflict and unity. Uhuru clearly promoted the latter which I'm sure the state was quite happy about. Uhuru sees itself as the vanguard of the black community but for some reason black folks don't seem to be joining their cult.

Oh by the way everyone-- I saw Uhuru try to provoke a fight with Bobby Seale. They wanted him to say that uhuru was the true legacy of the Panthers. Since he wouldn't they started calling him a sell-out and it degenirated into a physical confrontation that had to be broken up.

Uhuru has also assaulted people in the RCP (not that I agree with their wingnut Maoism) but it further demonstrates what a bunch of thugs that they are.

helga:
i appreciate the history lesson on wounded knee. thanks. i also aprreicate that you wrote:

"You know, strategically I think it would make sense to permit white allies (who aren't trying to step in and take over, like the RCP and similar groups have done) to be present..."

"...who aren't trying to step in and take over..." are the operative words in your statement. alex vitale said these folks were prarie fire. prarie fire is far worse than the rcp for the kind of from-the-left imperialism you acknolwedge as a problem. thats why its good riddance that prarie fire don't exist no more.

i do wonder how many of the frothing at the mouth anti-uhuru thugs in here are crusty old ex-prarie fire thugs, but thats an aside. the point is, like you say, white left organizations, like prarie fire and other groups, often go into black community to impose their "leadership" on african people. they tend to get their asses kicked for this behavior. it happend in bobby hutton park a little over 10 years ago. they are still crying about it on this thread. as i said, the uhuru movement's position on this incident, for which we are blamed, is that it we didn't do it. however, it is true we were involved indirectly having incensed the african people by making the criticism of the white left.

a statement posted above speaks volumes about the thuggery and treachery of prairie fire (as well as the reactionary hypocrit thug who posted it): '"..prairie fire----who are gaining creds in my eyes for thinking of peeling omali [the chairman of the uhuru movement] from his suv so he cant be cruising clearwater anymore..."

not that it really matters, but the chairman doesn't drive an suv. i believe this post was from kevin keating, because he has a fixation on expensive cars to the point of needing a good therapist. he can't resist describing his political opponents as drivers of them.

along with the above stated appreciation and desire for violence as political expression, on this thread are at least two expressions of desire for some violence to befall me. and while i'm not impresed or intimidated, i point out the profound hypocrisy of these characters who can issue these statement at the same time they dredge up this fight ten years ago as the mortal sin of the uhuru movement.

the uhuru movement has no beef with food not bombs, nor they with us as far as we know. we work closely with several folks who focus their activism in food not bombs. food not bombs sometime supports our events by bringing food to them.

the uhuru movement has no affiliation with nation of islam. the attempts here and elsewhere to pull us into the current scandal unveiling with yusef bey are slanderous and white nationalist opportunism. if your friend, regardless of his color, couldn't defend his opinion that uhuru is "crackpot" and instead directed the discussion to yusef bey and noi, that was unprincipled and dishonest. i suggest you point that out to him.

i can't speak about your friend beyond that, but i can say the real problem these white leftists on this thread have with the uhuru movement is not a fist fight in a park over ten years ago. nor a scandal emerging an unrelated organization. they are opposed to some of our poltical positions, which are:

african people, including those in the united states have a national identity, seperate from white people.

african people are colonized and will be their own liberators.

all "white people" -- europeans and their descendents -- owe reparations to african people and should support african people only under their leadership. this debt is regardless of class status.

the "uhuru movement attacked act up in a park" story, as well the lame attempts to associate us with yusef bey, are pathetic covers for these political disagreement. they rely on slander because they can't have an honest debate about these issues. if "tricky," kevin or anyone else wants who hates uhuru wants to have an open public debate with a representative from the uhuru movement they should let me know and we can arrange it.

however, i am all-but certain this will not happen cuz ideological imperialists are cowardly punks . they afraid to even put their own identities to their ideas and rely on anonymous slander to attempt to isolate the uhuru movement and others that threaten imperialism.

as far as the stragic importance of embracing white allies: yes! the uhuru movement is always actively trying to forge a principled relationship between white and black communities. that a white person like myself is involved in the uhuru movement is a consequence of that struggle. however, a principled alliance must include:

white people must respect black people's right to lead their own struggle.

white people must respect the right of black people to have meetings and/or other gatherings where we aren't invited to pariticipate.

ideological imperialists in the white left hate these ideas. thats whats beneath this discussion. it is also why white leftists sometimes find themselves on the receiving end of a good ass whooping when they roll into the african community uninvited and with their arrogant assumptions.

currently, the dire, intensifying world situation is creating all types of dynamic new alliances that were previously impossible. we are all noticing each other and realizing we will need each other and be able to put aside some differences if we are to present a challenge to this social system.

however, in left are ideological imperialists. these ideological imperialists are the ideological front line of imperialism, just as the police are the military front line. ideological imperialists will qoute marx. they will talk about revolution, they will cry for the children of iraq. and sponsor stop the war rallies. but whats underneath this what they are really doing is apologizing for imperialism, trying to reform it imperilialsm so that it continues to function. they constantly attacking any emerging threat to imperialism.

the only difference between the ideological imperialists, like kevin keating and trickey, and the police and military is the police and military use guns and clubs to continue imperialism, and the kevin and tricky use dogma, slander, intimidation and other bully tactics. these ideological imperialists are right here with us, desperately trying to prevent the above mentioned dynamic new alliances from forming.

but anyway, helga, it sounds like you have honest questions about the uhuru movement. i hope you don't rely on the opinion of your friend (again, regardless of his color) and develop one of your own based on first hand experience interacting with us. i'd enjoy a discussion with you about your questions, but that would be unproductive in this context, what with all the trolling and name calling in this thread.

if you are interested in a discussion, email me at thew94610 [at] yahoo.com. or come out to the uhuru house any wednesday night at 7pm. thats open rally night. the address is 7911 macarthur blvd in oakland. like i said, don't rely on rumors, decade-old legends, or second-hand opinions to decide what you think of the uhuru movement or anyone else for that matter.

uhuru! matthew

confused:
you insulted our uhuru holiday pies. therefore, fuck you. i will not answer any of your asinine questions until you sincerely apologize your bad manners and promise to make an honest effort to trascend your status as an ignoramus.

nasty?!? have you tried our pecan pie, numbnut? that thing literally melts in your mouth. its the god damned 8th wonder of the world. they've got a division of the department of homeland security dedicated to unlocking the mystery of how we achieve that perfect balance that nuttines and sweetness. we get requests to have our pecan pies shipped up to seattle. they are that fucking good. when was the last time you got a call from seattle to have your pecan pie shipped up there, asswipe? i'll tell you when. never. nev-fucking-ver. you child; you first-year greenhorn shit-talking jackass, you.

after pecan, there are five more fucking flavors, dude. we have an apple cranberry pie covered in granola topping. yeah you read it right, asshole. gronala topping. the combination of tangy-tart cranberries, sweet organic fuji apples, and the buttery wholesome goodness of the granola topping -- when you bite into that shit, its like a magical symphony of happiness tapdancing on your fucking tastebuds.

oh. but, you were lookig for sweet potato pie? certainly! we have those also. when's the last time you had an elderly african woman thanking you for your sweet potato pie and telling you it reminded her of her mother's? when's the last time you sold out of sweet potato pie by fucking noon at protrero hill safeway THREE FUCKING DAYS BEFORE CHRISTMAS, as i did today?

a word of advice -- which you would already know if you spent a minute of your life on an uhuru pie table: if you don't you know the score, keep your mouth shut.

you piece of shit.

klu klux keven "kar-keyer" keating:
fuck you, also. how dare you suggest uhuru doesn't let me sell weenies anymore?!? that's ridiculous slander. i'm one of the best weenie sellers in the uhuru movement. i happen to hold the record for the highest donation can in a single day of weenie selling. shit. got a certificate of award on my wall and everything. how you like me now, bitch?

and while we're on the subject, uhuru louisiana style sausages are some of the longest, thickest, juiciest grade-a beef you'd ever have the pleasure of wrapping your lips around and feeling slide down your throat. if you gave us half a chance, nestor! you'd never go back, promise. we've got both kinds. hot and mild. i'd suggest mild for your first time.

ohhh i'm terrified! please don't key my car!

tricky:
the reason you are putting words in my mouth, making up things i said, ranting about cults incessantly, and wishing violence on me at the same time you are attacking the uhuru movement for violence is because you are a hypocrit, an ideological imperialist and, arguably, the biggest moron of the lot.

i'm sure your efforts are a labor of love, but you might consider asking king george the second to send you a little somethin-somethin every month for the great work you do for him.

or if that falls through, perhaps you could get a job as the lone white barber in a black community barber shop. you'd be great, rolling up to east oakland in your new suv (don't let kevin see it) making out with your sexy, african girlfriend in front of everyone, providing stylish afro flattops, and heroically proving "you can be white and be Black also." you know, like what happens in the movies. (http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/10/1535679_comment.php.1537307)

someone brings up yusef bey raping 10 years olds and having kids with them and all matthew can do is savor over his taste buds. but they do make yummy veggie burgers. uhuru, like the manson family before them with their "helter-skelter", preach racial hatred and race war and jacking up whiteys simply because they are white and all matthew can do is brag about how good their junk food is. makes you wonder how great their food will be in his posts when we discover what omali's track record with the hoes down in clearwater is. how many 10 year old's has he knocked up?

or are you so consumed wif the playstation 2 that your parents gave you and that you opened early?

uhuru don't even make a beanpie you stupid piece of shit. thats the nation of islam, pissant. try to pretend you're not a backwards klu klux kommunist that sees all black groups as the same.

you sound disappointed that i don't get back to you fast enough. sorry, i have a life outside of discussion threads on indymedia, unlike your sorry ass. besides no one has said anything new since my last post. the only development is someone again -- probably klu klux kevin -- made some disgusting statement attempting to pull the uhuru movement into the yusef bey scandal, like the worthless pig that he is. but i've already discredited that ridiculous line of shit. why should i have to repeat myself? just because you all are too stupid and unimaginative to come up with new slander? fuck that and fuck you.

in any case i reserve the right to get bored with your stupid, impotent bullshit at any time and stop interacting all together. especially since predictably, none of you took up my offer to continue this discussion in person. you're a fucking pissant; i don't owe you any response. on that note: you never apologized for insulting our delectible uhuru holiday pies, so i shouldn't even respond at all. we sold out of all of our tables today before it got dark. our pies are so fucking goooooood!!!!

i'd like to know: how does it feel to get your rocks off on the internet with insults and flames and also know that you're a pathetic coward who'd never behave the way you do online in real life? sure i can be baited into insult exchanges here, but i know that i'd be happy to go toe-to-toe on any level that you want.

but you. you are stuck in the internet closet because you are a cowardly shitheel. does this make you feel like the a piece of shit worm you are? probably deep down it does, but on the level that your feeble, unprincipled consciousness has access to, i'm sure you have some wild justification that works for you, and makes you feel less juvenile. you're pathetic limp dick troll.

Doormatt, stop bragging about your junk food.

and sure, you and the uhuru goons certainly would attack me and anyone you don't like. look at your cult's track record and how readily you cover it up. wasn't there some nasty business about you guys firebombing a disgruntled former members house about 15 years ago?

and finally you're doing a disservice to humanity peddling crap with empty calories. just what obese americans need, more highly caloric shitfood.

Doormatt, if you and your goons are going to SF to get Kevin, you're pretty fucking stupid broadcasting it here. Are you going to try to play it off as a gay bashing like with Alex Vitale? Or is it your purist ideology to just let it stand as a racial hate crime. You're a pretty lame motherfucker to threaten people publically and to reduce all criticism of your cult to one person. Well, then you can organize the race war behind bars if the pigs catch you. Who's next?

I think racially motivated threats against someone should not be tolerated on this list. I suggest that Matthew and uhuru be banned. I'll be watching the papers from over here in Oaktown to see your cult up there with Bey's when you do carry out your act. Yet I think people should stand up to your race baiting and prevent your racist attack. If you do it, you'll confirm to all doubters what ruthless, apolitical thugs your cult really is.

confused

Here's what Matthew said:

>>>probably klu klux kevin

He goes on to threaten him. That's called "snitch jacketing" and means, intended or not, Matthew is doing the cops' work. I will not be tolerated.

Tim

The Zionists took Billions and Billions of Dollars from European Banks,
yet They refuse to share one penny of it with the Muslim and Christian Palestinian refugees and the exploited African slave.

Note that Matt first claimed that the attack ten years ago against Alex et al. never
occured. Now, he accepts that it did in fact happen, but, being the slimy sycophant that he is, claims
that it wasn't Uhuru that is directly culpable. Instead, he says that it was "incensed" members of the African community (who were whipped
into a violent frenzy by Uhuru's racial demogoguery and sectarianism). This characterization of events makes Matt (the doormat) utterly
gleeful as it implies that Uhuru House is strong within the "oppressed nation", when in fact
all it demonstrates is that the Uhuru's got some political idiots/thugs to do its bidding. And
we're supposed to be impressed? You're such a pathetic piece of shit, Matt.

Matt would like to characterize the '92 unrest as nothing more or less than an African
rebellion ( which his pitiful little cult has exclusive rights to, apparently). But this pure ideology.
As someone previously noted, Latinos represented the highest numbers imprisoned in
LA during the uprising. The sacking of Parker Center in downtown LA was a fully multi-racial event.
So were the riots and demonstrations in the Bay Area. A rather strange "African" rebellion.

Even if the 1992 uprising was an all-black affair -- which it WAS NOT -- it would still
be highly problematic to say it was an African rebellion. We'd need to know if the participants viewed themselves
as Africans engaging in actions on behalf of an "African" movement.
If not, what does it mean to say it was an African rebellion?

As a devout anti-nationalist and a participant in the 92 uprising, I say that the 92 uprising
was an American rebellion, conducted by Americans (aside for those undocumented participants) and in response to American conditions.
It was amazing, scary, hopeful, inspiring, and flawed. In short, contradictory. Matt and his cult would
like to mythologize 92 as an African rebellion to further their racialist view. Only idiots are fulled.

And, Matt, if you ever try any of the antics you glorify on me and any of my comrades, I'll fuck you up.

Check out this link for an example of overcoming racism. Too much of the muck of nationalism and racialism actually make overcoming racism impossible.


http://www.monthlyreview.org/200lynd.htm

Check out this link for an example of overcoming racism. Too much of the muck of nationalism and racialism actually make overcoming racism impossible.


http://www.monthlyreview.org/200lynd.htm

I'm under the impression that he's Latino--or Chicano--but he didn't like either of those terms. But he's so fanatically moralistic about Blacks that I'm assuming he's Mextizo. So, Matthew, what are you--Chicano, Black? Or mixed?

Tim

can any of you little pissants -- assuming there is more than one of you out there -- please point out where i threatened klu klux kevin or anyone else? all i did was challenge you to be principled enought to say what you say in this forum, face-to-face. i guess to the crusty old piece(s) of shit limpdick(s) here, that amounts to some evil threat and demonstrates all that is so terrible about the uhuru movement.

no wonder you are too ashamed to claim any identity of organizational affiliation. aaron how can you "fuck me up" when you're too afraid of me to look in my eye and talk your shit. you're stuck on the internet, not because the uhuru movement is so terrible, but because you are that much of a cowardly weakling. how do you look in the mirror?

but since you're too much of a little bitch to take me up on my offer to talk face-to-face, just find and repost where i wrote that the Great Fistfight of '92 never occured. i never said that, shit-boy. i said i didn't know about it firsthand because its ancient history, and had to find people who were around to tell me about it firsthand. but you already knew that and were just twisting my words, weren't you numbnut?

tim i already told you i wasn't answering any of your asinine questions until you apologize for criticising our wonderful uhuru holiday pies.

once again, to all that are paying attention, the reason the cowardly trolls hate the uhuru movment is because we believe:

african people, including those in the united states have a national identity, seperate from white people.

african people are colonized and will be their own liberators.

all "white people" -- europeans and their descendents -- owe reparations to african people and should support african people only under their leadership. this debt is regardless of class status.

that's their problem with us. they pretend its some bullshit altercation in a park ten years ago, or and the rest of the sorry stories, because they can't take responsiblitiy for their wretched and white nationalist poltitics.

'anti-nationalist' my ass. aaron is a WHITE NATIONALIST. part of his white nationalism is an ideological imperialist oppostion to african or any other oppressed nationality having a voice of their own. when they struggle for their own voice, they get attacked by him worse than the police. its called ideological imperialism. this is why he and others attack the uhuru movement on this thread, including the calls for censorship of us, the distortion of what i've written and the threats of violence that have been issued towards me and other uhuru movement people here.

that's what white nationalists mean by "anti-nationalist" its a sorry-assed line, that can't stand the light of day. that's why it thrives so well on the internet, but refuses to get offline.

anyway, i've pretty much said all this before. i think this thread is boring now and going in circles. anyone who cares to can sum up this discussion for him or herself at this point. i'm done with this thread now. anyone who wants to interact with me further from this has my email. this invitation is extended to the limp dick trolls, aaron, klu klux, confused, and tricky (to the extent that you are different people) who are too sorry-assed to take me up on the offer, as well the honest people out there.

uhuru means freedom! matthew

For such a religious sacrificial lamb, you're awfully foul-mouthed, Matt.

If you didn't previously explicitly deny that the attack on Alex et al. occured, you certainly were evasive on the matter. It wasn't until Alex confirmed that it did in fact happen that you switched tack and adopted a new line -- that it was a righteous assualt on your political enemies by "incensed" members of the African community. Like I said before, your intimation that the attack vindicates the Uhuru "movement" is a fucking joke, and just another example of why those WHO KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL about your cult don't want to have anything to do with you. You have no class analysis, only a catechism about race--nothing more. Like any good cult member you mindlessly justify your cult's violent and unprincipled actions.

Tell me, Matt, did you cheer when you saw Reginald Denny get bludgeoned? Was that a righteous assault on white supremacy?

Is Matthew's group part of the Mussolini-type Black nationalist fascism---or---are they straight up Nazi-like racists? The way they act like a COINTELPRO operations makes it all the same. They are the pigs, whether they intend to or not. IF YOU SEE THE UHURU COPS BASH THEM!!! They, like Yusef Bey, represent the ideology of racial hatred and inverted colonialism. They are the KKK of Black nationalism. They must be destroyed

FUCK KKK "WHITE" NATIONALISM AND "OMALI YESHITILIA" BLACK NATIONALISM---THEY ARE BOTH FASCISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi. We are a bunch of anti-racist, anti-fascist anarchist activists and we see that Matthew stirs up racial hatred and is an active voice of racism and nationalistic fascism. We want to kill him and are up for his challenge of face-to-face interaction.

So punk, when and where? You will die racist, religious punk. We think we're saving you from jail and ass rape for your peckerwood-ness. We hate your whiteness as much as you hate yourself. We will repent out racial sins by killing you. I'm sure your guilt will help us to be complicit. WE HATE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU HATE YOURSELF. It is our pleasure to kill you and make this nation rid of one less racist cracker.

YOU WILL DIE--Where do you live? Please just give us street address and apt. #.

Love, ANTI-RACISTS ANARCHIST!

Your pathetic racism is veiled by your crypto-racism. We want to kick your ass and destroy all your bean pies and rip off your bow ties. You are a fucked up racist element that makes living in the bay area fucked up. I would help fuck you up. Not because you're white, but because you're a racist nationalist. You didn't gay bash Alex Vitale, but that's because you hadn't learned homophobia by then. Now that you're a homophobic Black nationalist, we all want to KILL you. Just tell us when and where and we'll lynch your racist ass.

Is there a way you cockroaches can step on each other more quietly? I have to work in the morning.

Tim was right, those pies you sell are nasty. Taste bad and have all the congealed guilt of master mentality, patronisingly stooping down to help people you really despise. Stop bullshiting us. You only are capable of comtempt and misanthopic hatred. You smell as nasty as those pies you peddle. The only way to deal with the swine flesh of Matthew is to eliminate it--meaning him. Like the advent of the brownshirts in Germany in the 30s, racists like Matthew need to be stomped out before they can preach their hatred. Remove the cloak of the "anti-racists" like Uhuru and you have nationalist goose steppers who compete with the NOI and the Yusef Bey types to be the surrogate police OVER people. They must be destroyed before their fascism and scapegoating furthers the interests of both capitalism and racism. Boycott racist pies and the crackers that peddle them.

FD

How did I ever miss this thread? I'm usually in EVERY thread where someone threatens to kick eggfaced aarons ass! Matthew, you better eat a few moh ah dem dere Aunte-bees bean pies befoe yew mess wit aaron. He tells me he moves pianos for a living. You gots ta be a big brotha to do dat.

I don't know Aaron Aarons well, but I know for certain that he doesn't work. I'm very, very sure he doesn't move pianos. So, I'm sure that Eric and Matthew and a few of their henchmen could put him down in short order. I'm sure, given the right tools and playing up their contacts with those in authority, they could put anyone down. Doesn't make living in this sick world any more comfortable. Actually, makes life seems more worthless.

Just Looking

Hey doormatt and eric,

Couldn't you just put it out in the 'hood that Aaron Aaron's gay. According to what you've said before, wouldn't that be enough to have him whacked? Wasn't that the tactic with Alex Vitale, who also wasn't really gay?

Stoney

Since Halle Berry is both white and black, does that mean that she gets to pay reparations to herself? Or does she only get half reparations?

She would have to pay herself a half portion. And the reparation payments would be based on current wealth, as a percentage. So, people like Bill Cosby would be paid directly by Bill Gates. Eminem would directly pay Ice Cube. Mark McGwire would pay Barry Bonds--actually Major League Baseball would simply deduct the reparation amount from McGwire's pay and add it on to Bonds', and on and on. Now looking at me, you'd accurately judge me to be decended from North Europeans, but what you don't know is I have a African-American decendent and I would be entitled to a 1/32 share which my "white" part would pay to myself.

Simple, ain't it?

wow, open threats against my life! calls for lynchings! and not a month after someone made good on a similar threat on this very website! damn what you white nationalist thugs will resort to when you've been ideologically defeated. you get even more stupid. i bet i could even get indymedia to reveal your ip addresses under the circumstances. in fact i will pursue that angle, see what that scares up.

but in any case, i do appreciate your honesty. the lynching call was my personal favorite. just your style klu klux kevin, a lynching. just like the old days.

hey tim, where's all your wonderful indignation about people threatening people here? when i suggested that we talk eye to eye, you said i was threatening kevin, and should be banned. and now here are all these open calls for my death. c'mon man, i thought you hated violence!

not that i mind. i love it when white nationalist thugs threaten my life. it means i'm doing a good job.

unfortunatly though, for all the barking going on here, no one can muster the sack to email me directly. you're begging for my home address, so you can vandalize my shit in the dark, like the worthless peice of shit coward(s) you are, but you can't bring yourself to even throw me an email.

i imagine this is because you're aware once you email me, i will know your identity. limp dick white nationalist trolls don't function well in the light of day. in fact, thats why i know who kevin keating is. he was just some anonymous shithead trolling on me whenever i participated on indymedia. that was, until he made the mistake of emailing me privately with his nasty shit. once he emailed me, i had his email address also, did a little research and pulled his ugly little ass out of the closet. isn't that right kevin?

so go ahead and email me you little pissants (assuming there's more than one. i think i count three.) you want to "fuck me up" and "kill me" you're going to have to work up the courage to send me an email first, bitch.

if eggfaced aaron is gay or if he moves pianos for a living.

I'm white and I'm a nationalist. No doubt about that.

But I'd side with Matt any day of the week when it comes to smashing you punk assed indybay liberals.

Just let me know when and where. I'd love to have "coffee" with you guys.

Mike Tyson $200k
Oprah Winfey $200k
Denzel Washington $200k
Ted Nugent $200k
Toni Braxton $200k
Nancy Wilson $200k
Stevie Wonder $200k
Bill Cosby $200k
JENNIFER LOPEZ $200k
Whoopi Goldberg $200k
Sammy Davis Jr. $200k
Marvin Gaye $200k(posthumous, awarded to his estate) $200k
James Brown$200k
Aretha Franklin $200k
Diana Ross $200k
Smokey Robinson $200k
The Temptations$200k
Jackson Five (let's get them all $200k, even Gerome)$200k
Frankie Lymon$200k
Martha & Vandellas$200k
The Supremes$200k
Lena Horne$200k
Patti Labelle$200k
Gil Scott Heron$200k
Nat King Cole$200k
Charlie Pride$200k
Skip Wilson$200k
Etta James$200k
RuPaul$200k
Danny Glover$200k
Traci Bingham$200k
Lisa Lawrence$200k
lil Kim $200k
lil Bow Wow$200k
Snoop Dogg$200k
Dr. Dre$200k

Those whose ancestors received 40 acres and a mule should not be entitled to reperations. Those who were not bright enough to take advantage of 40 acres and a mule shouldn't get anything now cause their ancestors had their chance. Those who were promised 40 acres and a mule and found they were lied to, we'll just tell them they're going to get $200K someday and to quiet up about it and they will; the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Get over it Abdul! There are so many countries who suffered and are suffering from colonialism, repression, and neö-colonialism. I am sick of Arab cry-babies still suffering from the fact that they had a great culture 700 years ago. Look at Asia. Colonialised, oppressed, bombed by the US, they managed to rid themselves of the "victim"complex in a short period of time. Largely impoverished and oppressed, they looked to the future and have turned their countries around.What are the wealthiest Arab countries doing to help their brethren? Looking to the past with sentimental nostalgia.

. Try adding Holland, Belgium,Spain,Portugal,and France. The current high standard of living in the whole western world is based on exploitation.Not to mention the Arab slave traders and their descendants who could probably still be traced.The question. Who should pay reparations??>

been mentioned as a power that profited from . < Who should pay reparations??>

Who do withness thank he is? The messiah? We don't need more of them. Go away white saviour. You ain't notin' but another carpet-bagger.

NT

Hey, fight fair. No name calling. :)

David Stockman, will make Matthew's mouth water. Who could believe that our interests could converge. But they do--I want to let Matthew be the Financial Minister of the Black People's Socialist Republic--BLACKNAZI. Go get those Jews and native Arayans!!!

MS

David Stockman, will make Matthew's mouth water. Who could believe that our interests could converge. But they do--I want to let Matthew be the Financial Minister of the Black People's Socialist Republic--BLACKNAZI. Go get those Jews and native Arayans!!!

MS