Corrie Resolution Wins in Berkeley

I have received word from reliable sources that the counter-resolution seeking to dilute last week's victory in the Council will be removed from the agenda. It will still be important to have a presence at the City Council. First, we need to thank our supporters on the council. Second, our opponents will be there berating the council for its doing the right thing, so we need to be there also. And last, this should be a way of honoring Rachel on the 6 month anniversary of her death.

I cannot say enough how important it will be to not use this time for attacks against our opponents. Keeping things positive will make it possible for more victories in the future.

you wrote "We ask that comments be kept positive, praising the City Council's action"

Don't you DARE tell me what to say - EVER. If I want to praise a bulldozer I will. Stay out of my way - ALWAYS a good idea...... GET IT?????

Just an observation with positive goals in mind: The world is a giant place, and you guys sure seem to devote an almost ridiculously excessive amount of time on the 6 million jews of israel, and far too little time on the SIX BILLION other people on this earth. Israel has less people in it than NYC. I'm not saying "ignore israel" or anything. Just saying that if you want to make a real difference on this earth, focusing 75% or even 50% of your time on 0.00001% of earth isn't too effective.

That wont happen Positive... there are too many anti-Semites polluting these boards (they hide unde the banner of "anti-Zionism", but they are hate-mongers nonetheless).

It's just another example of uber-hypocrite pots calling the kettle black.

Don't worry, these hateful weasles just talk, write. protest and are essentially powerless. But, as you have noticed, it is disappointing to see so much hate directed at such an issue. If they put that energy into feeding children or educating the downtrodden, this world WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE - but they would rather make asses out of themselves.

is racism, plain and simple. Zionism is racism. To defend it in any way, particularly with bald faced lies, is racist.

Nobady said here that all anti-Zionists are anti-Semites. Too bad you have such abysmal reading comprehension skills. These skills are the product of the same poorly educated brain which propelled you to cough up "Zionism is racism...to defend it in any way, is racist.".
That so many on this site agree with you doesn't change the fact you're wrong.
Go back to school and have yourself put in a special class for the mentally challenged.

that Zionism *isn't* racism, or that it isn't racist to defend a racist ideology?

No doubt many Americans don't even know what Zionism is. Here's a website by an Oakland peace & justice activist that does a great job in sharing the truth about Zionism with his fellow Americans... here is it.... http://www.zionismexplained.org

Check it out!

The website the above person wants you to read is not only a rabidly hateful anti-Zionist site, it's even anti-Semitic. It often uses "Zionists" as a codeword for "Jews". It's credibility cannot be trusted.

If you read the contents you'll become even more confused, so stay away from it.

> Jewish Community Relations Council [an extremist
> pro Sharon organization],

Is there any Jewish organization that you do like? I mean other than the Nutarei Karta.

The JCRC, like most mainstream Jewish groups, is a liberal organization that, like almost all Jewish groups, is Zionist. That is because Zionism is inherent to Judaism.

It is attacks on the JCRC that further expose the lie that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism, as if attacks on the ADL (Jewish Anti-Defamation League) was not evidence enough.

As has been stated many times before, a person (or their actions) are not anti-Semitic just because they say they are not.

In response to "so" , yes, there are many pro-human rights Jewish organizations that are allies in the struggle for human rights, justice and peace in the Middle East. Jewish Voice for Peace locally, B'tselem, Israeli Committe Against House Demolitions, and the Israelis who cross the green line to work to prevent human rights abuses by the Israeli army.... and more groups that I can think of at the moment.

Any organization that supports the Sharon government can hardly be called liberal.

a stance calling the JCRC "extremist", even if it does support Sharon. People espousing such a view are detached from reality.

The JCRC is an "extremist group"?

So is an "extremist group" now anything that dares not to be rabidly anti-Zionist?

@%<

This was a very close vote and still could go either way. Here is a letter I sent to the Mayor and members of the City Council before the vote:

Honorable Mayor Tom Bates and Distingusihed Members of the Berkeley City Council,

As a resident of a neighboring city (Oakland), I urge you to vote no on Agenda Items 46 and 47. I sincerely believe that these Agenda Items are politically motivated by opponents of Israel's very existence. While I am saddened by the loss of inocent American lives, I cannot support the call for moralisitc intervention in the affairs of a soverign nation, let alone a democratic one.

As you are all aware, Israel is a democratic nation with a separation of powers--legislative, executive, and jusidical--and a thriving civil society with trade unions, human rights organizations, and so on. Surely, of all the nations where Americans have faced untiemly deaths, Israel is among the least deserving of scrutiny. Would we call for a Congressional Investigation involving the death of an American in France, Germany or even Saudi Arabia?

Regarding Agenda Item 47, why the City of Berkeley would spend taxpayer money on such an obviously politically divisive issue is strange. Rachel Corrie was not a resident of Berekely, the East Bay, or California. Rachel Corrie went as a volunteer to a region of the world that is experiencing high levels of political violence. Furthermore, she chose to stand in solidarity with those who kill American and Israeli citizens.

By now many of us have seen the image of Rachel buring a US flag in the occupied territories. While this is an example of free speech in the United States, engaging in such actions where sectarian violence is occurring is inflammatory and far from an act of defiance. If anything it is a statement of conformity with the Palestinian "cause" of killing civilians, both American and Israeli.

Surely the City Council's money--actually the citizens' tax dollars--would be better spent researching issues and violations of civil rights that impact Californians. The dismal situation of sweatshop workers in San Francisco and the precarious situation of day laborers both come to mind.

The International Solidarity Movement has proven itself completely partisan in its solidarity. They never ride on busses in soilidarity with the Jews of Israel and instead chose to maintain a strictly partisan stance in the Middle East conflict. In their worldview, Israel is not the only democracy in the Middle East but a bastion of US imperialism and settler colonialism.

These same groups and individuals continue the lies that there was a "massacre" in Jenin and that Israel is engaging in a policy of genocide against the Palestinian people. Surely the City of Berkeley should not engage in such clearly politcally motivated anti-Israeli schemes.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

****

Just a question for the "Corrie resolution" backers. Who, exactly, do you believe should conduct the independent investigation you request? Are you willing to accept the investigation's findings should they be critical of Rachel Corrie, the ISM, or Palestinians in general?

Let's hear honest answers to those questions.

>it's even anti-Semitic. It often uses "Zionists" as a codeword for "Jews". It's credibility cannot be trusted.

"Anti-”jerk a typical Zionist, uses "anti-Semitic" as a code word for "anti-Zionist," as if the two terms were synonymous.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Not all Jews are Zionists. Most Zionists are not Jews. They’re Christians.

>If you read the contents you'll become even more confused, so stay away from it.

In other words, “anti-”jerk is saying, “don’t go there and see for yourself what liar I am.”

Zion: The historic homeland of the Jewish people; Israel. This term is also often used to describe Jerusalem, specifically.

Zionism: The National Liberation movement of the Jewish People. It is the modern expression of the ancient longing by the Jewish People to return to its land and live as a free people once again. The Jews have been in exile for almost 2000 years; a landless, forever persecuted people. It is the desire to secure a modern state for the Jewish nation in place of the ancient Jewish homeland. It is the conviction that the Jewish people have the right to live in freedom and security in their homeland. It is the determination to aid and encourage the return of any and all Jewish refugees of the Diaspora who wish to return home. It is the concern for the safety and security of that modern state, and the desire to see it strong enough to defend itself and the Jewish people as a whole from any present or future existential threat. Zionism is by no means a modern movement. By the modern definition, Abraham, Moses, and Joshua were all Zionists. Although Zionism is rooted in Judaism, it also has political aspects. Aside from religion, there are countless reasons why the Jews, not only need their own country, but also have exclusive, absolute and unconditional rights to all of Israel.

Every self respecting Jew, in his right mind, is inherently and inevitably a Zionist, although a Zionist may be a non-Jew. Non Jewish Zionists are simply decent people who sympathize with the Jews and their right to live, be free and prosper in a land of their own. Anti-Zionism, whether directly or indirectly, is without a doubt, anti-Semitism. Zionism, is in no way related to racism, or terrorism. The peope who claim that Zionism is racism, are the ignorant, straight forward anti semites, and those who hide their antisemitism, behind "anti-Zionism."

The Jewish people existed as a distinct entity before they got to what is now Israel. When they did get there, there were people already living there.

"Our opponents ["Arch-Zionists] are offering a resolution that asks that H.Con.Res. 111 be amended to ask for an "investigation of all American deaths" in Israel/Palestine. "

You mean to say that Israel is NOT even investigating the deaths of Zionist *JEWISH* Americans!!? After all the billions of dollars that we've been giving Isreal year after year after year!? I *DEMAND*(!) a resolution *ORDERING* the state of Israel to also investigate the deaths of JEWISH American victims of suicide bombers -- and the bombers too -- in Palestine! I *DEMAND*(!) that, included in the resolution, the Berkeley City Council herewith *CONDEMN* Israel if it does not!! Prime Minister Ariel Sharon must *STOP* coddling suicide bombers!

I *DEMAND*(!) that Israel investigate the deaths of *EVERYONE* who dies a violent death in Israel -- at the hands of soldiers or civilians, settlers or villagers -- for *NO* one life is worth more than another!

If Israel won't at least investigate the *JEWISH* deaths, including former UC Berkeley student Marla Bennet, as well as all other violent deaths, then I *DEMAND*(!!!) that *ALL* U.S. aid to Israel *CEASE* and that *ALL* Israeli products are *BOYCOTTED* until they do!!

RIGHT NOW!!

keep demanding .... you have about as much effect as a fart in a windstorm. You wanna know what? That is rightly SO!
Read, learn... not from "Angie" but the actual facts(not put forth by the anti-semites hiding behind the guise of anti-zionism who then insist they are separate topics to justify their racism).
Then, give it a rest and feed a child or a take an unemployed person out for dinner.

keep demanding .... you have about as much effect as a fart in a windstorm. You wanna know what? That is rightly SO!
Read, learn... not from "Angie" but the actual facts(not put forth by the anti-semites hiding behind the guise of anti-zionism who then insist they are separate topics to justify their racism).
Then, give it a rest and feed a child or a take an unemployed person out for dinner.

keep demanding .... you have about as much effect as a fart in a windstorm. You wanna know what? That is rightly SO!
Read, learn... not from "Angie" but the actual facts(not put forth by the anti-semites hiding behind the guise of anti-zionism who then insist they are separate topics to justify their racism).
Then, give it a rest and feed a child or a take an unemployed person out for dinner.

Actually you're a pretty huge joke yourself, sir or madam.

I am not in this thread, and I'm curious as to why you would drag me into same. A purely rhetorical question, however.

"Outraged" could learn a lot from me, but it is obvious he or she is well versed in the things I stand for already - honesty, justice, and human kindness. That much I gleaned from Outraged Citizen's post. Strange you missed that.

He or she could also learn from me a few foreign appropriate words and phrases for people like you perhaps. Happily I am of the belief that "Outraged Citizen" is pretty grounded in the things that I hold dear.

Now if we could say the same for you!

Incidentally, I am not getting dragged into a thread with respect to San Fran. I do not live here (gorgeous as it may well be), and I think it would be highly inappropriate for me to comment on its municipal politics.

Many times I have seen the following:

> Not all Jews are Zionists. Most Zionists are not
> Jews. They’re Christians.

Being a Zionist and a Jew, this statement baffles me. Almost all Jews I have ever met, from the resolutely secular to the Haredim (black hat super religious types), from the very liberal to the ultra conservative, are Zionists.

On the other hand, I have met very few non-Jews who self identify as "Zionist."

A famous German author and political leader like to say "Repeat a lie, no matter how large, often enough, and the people will believe it.."

I this statesman's influecne time and time again in these discussions.

I'm in the same boat as you. I live in new york, and I'm your average everyday nyc jewish guy, and tons of my friends are jewish. No jewish person I know ever needs to state "I am a zionist," because it's pretty much a given. But these "anti-zionists" like to pretend that when they attack the very concept of zionism, and rally for israel to be broken up, they are rallying against "zionists" - who they say are mostly christian, not jewish - as if this somehow matters?

These people are rallying against the existence of a jewish state. They list various reasons, such as it's "racist" or "was formed due to terrorism" and other crap.They do not also rally against the existence of the muslim states. They do not demand that muslim states be broken up because of how they were formed, or because they're racist. If you force them, they will say "I'm against all religious states," but if you actually watch their actions, they devote the vast majority of their time calling for zionism to cease to exist (in other words, the 6 million jews that more or less control israel thanks to popular vote should somehow be forced to allow millions of arabs to flood in and kill them), while never making real moves to break up muslim states, since they know it'll never happen.

It's a screwed up world here in the land of "peace" activism, dude.

Maybe that's your problem. Take off your ideological blinders, pull your fingers out of your ears and take an objective look at the real world.

>Almost all Jews I have ever met, from the resolutely secular to the Haredim (black hat super religious types), from the very liberal to the ultra conservative, are Zionists.

All that tells us is the circles you travel in. You really need to get out more.

Here, meet an anti-Zionist Jew:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/04/1601076.php


>On the other hand, I have met very few non-Jews who self identify as "Zionist."

That’s a separate issue. You don’t have to self identify as a Zionist to be one. If you support the existence of Israel, you are a Zionist by definition. Most Americans support the existence of Israel.

There are, at the barest minimum, 40 million evangelical fundamentalist Christians who support the existence of Israel for religious reasons. They honestly believe God wants them to.

There are untold millions more Christian Americans who support Israel for political reasons, ie., they think they are supposed to “support their country” and their country supports Israel, and/or they think Israel is America’s friend, so that’s why they support Israel.

But most import is the literal support that every American taxpayer gives Israel, every April 15th. Talk’s cheap. Money pays the bills. In Israel’s case, American tax money makes it’s existence possible. Some of it goes directly to Israel. Some of it goes to the American military, the ultimate guarantor if Israel's existence. Some of it paid for the R&D that made possible Israel’s nukes, which guarantees that, even should Israel fall, it will take hundreds of millions of people, and the world’s economy with it.

We, the American taxpayers, willing and otherwise, make Israel possible. Every atrocity Israel commits is blood on our hands.

A few mistaken concepts:

"In Israel’s case, American tax money makes it’s existence possible."

Wrong. American tax money makes it exist within a tolerable subsistence zone. Without American aid, Israel would be in economical dire straits, like in Egypt's condition or worse, but exist nevertheless.

"Some of [American tax money] goes to the American military, the ultimate guarantor if Israel's existence. "

Wrong. Israel's ultimate guarantor is its ARROW missile batteries, which are much more sophisticated and goal-suited than any American alternative.

"We, the American taxpayers, willing and otherwise, make Israel possible. Every atrocity Israel commits is blood on our hands. "

That would be true If American taxpayers were paying to suply Israel's military only with American equipment.
However, Much of the IDF's weaponry and equipment is Israeli made or produced by other countries. So atrocities committed by *some* Israeli military personnel aren't necessarily blood on their hands.

The item that was going to be put forth in the City Council, an effort to dilute last week's call to investigate Rachel Corrie's death, has been withdrawn from the agenda by its sponsors.

We will still be thanking the city council and afterward holding a vigil outside the council chambers to commemerate the 6 month anniversary of Rachel's death.