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Remove Rush Limbaugh from American Forces Radio

by your tax dollars pay for Rush
Sign a petition to stop Rush from being broadcast to US troops at tax payers expense.
To: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
We request that Secretary Rumsfeld remove talk radio host Rush Limbaugh from the American Forces Radio and Television Service (formerly known as Armed Forces Radio). Mr. Limbaugh, whose program is broadcast for one hour per day to U.S. troops overseas, has spent the past four weeks condoning and trivializing the abuse, torture, rape and possible murder of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. guards at the Abu Ghraib prison—gross misconduct that you have described as “fundamentally un-American.”

In recent weeks, Rush Limbaugh has: Compared the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. guards at Abu Ghraib to a fraternity initiation; called the abuse “brilliant” and “effective”; said the guards were just “having a good time” and “blow[ing] some steam off”; likened the abuse to “a Britney Spears or Madonna concert … [or] the MTV music awards”; compared pictures of the abuse to “good old American pornography”; and said “the reaction to the stupid torture is an example of the feminization of this country.”

Limbaugh’s radio program is broadcast to American troops via the American Services Network, a taxpayer-funded radio and television broadcasting agency that reaches nearly 1 million US troops in more than 175 countries, including Iraq.

Both Secretary Rumsfeld and President Bush have rightly denounced the acts that took place at Abu Ghraib – but American service men and women abroad are getting the wrong message when the Department of Defense simultaneously broadcasts Limbaugh’s condoning of what Secretary Rumsfeld has called “fundamentally un-American” acts. Limbaugh’s comments directly contradict orders issued by the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq -- which, according to the Washington Post, bar “military interrogators from using the most coercive techniques available to them in the past” -- thus undermining the military’s chain of command. The comments may also inflame anti-American sentiment abroad, putting our service men and women at risk.

In addition, as Media Matters for America detailed in a May 2 report, Meet the New Rush, Same as the Old Rush, Mr. Limbaugh has recently made several racially-charged and sexist remarks on his broadcast. For example, Mr. Limbaugh said on April 26 that women who protest sexual harassment “actually wish” to be sexually harassed. And on March 26, Mr. Limbaugh said, “A Chavez is a Chavez. These people have always been a problem.” Given the extraordinary importance of troop morale and unity during this time of conflict, we ask Secretary Rumsfeld to review whether it is appropriate for the U.S. government to broadcast such messages, which may sow seeds of discord in the ranks.

We, the undersigned, ask Secretary Rumsfeld to order the American Services Network to cease broadcasting Rush Limbaugh’s radio program immediately, before he further undermines the military’s command structure and endangers our troops.

Sincerely,

http://www.petitiononline.com/mmfa2/petition.html
§OTM
by more
The notion of taxpayer dollars subsidizing TV and radio with a perceived leftist tilt has long obsessed congressional Republicans. NPR and PBS, of course, deny having a liberal agenda, but what if an explicitly political program with extremist sentiments and ad hominem partisan rhetoric were distributed to government employees entirely at taxpayer expense? Well, say hi to the Rush Limbaugh Show brought to millions of U.S. servicemen and women and their families for an hour each day on American Forces Radio. Salon.com senior writer Eric Boehlert discovered this hidden in plain sight, and he joins me now. Eric, welcome back to OTM.

ERIC BOEHLERT: Good to be here.

BOB GARFIELD: All right. Let's set the stage, please. What's American Forces Radio?

ERIC BOEHLERT: American Forces Radio is what everyone still refers to as Armed Forces Radio. It was created in the '40s by the government as a way to bring a, quote, "taste of home" to the troops serving overseas. It was also as a way to counterbalance the propaganda being broadcast by Tokyo Rose, etc. In the '50s, they added a television service, so today when you're overseas, you can sort of get the greatest hits of American television and radio.

BOB GARFIELD: Okay. A little taste of home. Rush Limbaugh, the most popular radio show in America. That would seem to make some sense. What's the problem with it?

ERIC BOEHLERT: If you look at the lineup, it's sort of an innocuous collection of CNN headline news, some country music, some classic rock, some Christian programming on the weekends, some sports, and then for one hour every day you get this rabid, partisan political attack show on the radio. And there is a sense that, a) American Forces Radio is paid for by taxpayers, and probably not all taxpayers want to fund Rush Limbaugh. But, second is that, okay, if you're going to have a right wing talk show host broadcasting to the troops, find someone to create a counterbalance.

BOB GARFIELD: Is there no mandate for greater balance on its airwaves?

ERIC BOEHLERT: The guidelines do call for balance, particularly when it comes to political programming, and they have specific guidelines during presidential election years. I think the guidelines may sort of apply to Pentagon-produced news programs, but it-- the guidelines clearly say that the programming on American Forces Radio and Television should offer diverse political opinion.

BOB GARFIELD: In your piece, you spoke to the director of American Forces Radio, and he says "Why, we do have balance to Rush Limbaugh. We have--?"

ERIC BOEHLERT: NPR.

BOB GARFIELD: [LAUGHS] Okay, and that, and that counterbalances Rush Limbaugh and his assertion that the Abu Ghraib abuses and torture and possibly murders were nothing more than fraternity pranks. That counterbalances that how?

ERIC BOEHLERT: You know, that's the question. I mean you have NPR, Morning Edition is broadcast; Talk of the Nation is broadcast. If you listen to those shows, you don't hear one person behind a microphone for 60 minutes talking about how women activists are equivalent to Nazis. So the idea that you can have Rush Limbaugh degrade Democrats for 60 minutes a day and then flip on Weekend Edition where you're going to interview poets and do some news updates -- that's not [LAUGHS] a balance. That's not even close.

BOB GARFIELD: Now, this is all very interesting and easy to get inflamed about, but is there any reason to think that this has any ramifications in the real world?

ERIC BOEHLERT: Yeah. If you look at the 2000 election, and specifically the Florida recount, it's not a stretch to say Bush is now president because of the overseas military ballots that came in. What's the implication of having Rush Limbaugh for 60 minutes a day telling troops, you know, that Democrats like terrorists, that Democrats are against the war, that John Kerry doesn't want to send the right kind of armor to protect them in the battlefield? Again, you're talking about a government-funded communications system that broadcasts worldwide this one, singular partisan talk show host.

BOB GARFIELD: All right, Eric. As always, thanks a lot.

ERIC BOEHLERT: Okay. Talk to you, Bob.

BOB GARFIELD: Eric Boehlert is a senior editor for Salon.com. Joining me now is Allison Barber, deputy assistant secretary of defense for public affairs. Allison, welcome to On the Media.

ALLISON BARBER: Thanks. Thanks for having me.

BOB GARFIELD: Eric Boehlert's piece raised the question --I'll put it to you: Doesn't American Forces Radio have a-- an explicit mandate to balance politically charged programming?

ALLISON BARBER: American Forces Radio has a mandate to do two things: the first is to provide a channel for commanders to have an access to be able to communicate with their deployed troops. The second mandate is to provide news, information, and entertainment for the morale of the troops that is similar to that of what they would have if they were not deployed.

BOB GARFIELD: Well since you raised the issue of morale of the troops, are you comfortable with programming that dismisses, for example, the Abu Ghraib scandal as a "frat prank" at the same time your own Department of Defense is launching courts martial and investigations of torture and homicide?

ALLISON BARBER: The challenge for us is that part of our policy is also that we are prohibited to manipulate or censor, so not only is that something that is aired, because we're not allowed to manipulate to censor programming, we also air news and information where people are sometimes critical of our troops. But the bottom line is the men and women in the military are smart people. They hear that as just somebody's opinion. They don't have to listen to it. They have options. They can turn off or turn on whoever they want to.

BOB GARFIELD: Well, not whoever they want to. They can't turn on, for example, Howard Stern, the second most highly rated radio program in America and one that has taken a decided anti-Bush administration turn the last six months. If they can turn on Rush Limbaugh to hear him rant about feminazis, why can't they hear Howard Stern?

ALLISON BARBER: To be honest with you, our troops haven't asked for Howard Stern. We have some issues with some of the sexual content of Howard Stern, just like most Americans do.

BOB GARFIELD: And yet a moment ago you told me that you don't censor the information.

ALLISON BARBER: Once we make the decision to show whatever program we're showing, we are prohibited to censor or manipulate that programming.

BOB GARFIELD: But you can certainly stop distributing it. Do you know if there was any consideration when the Rush Limbaugh program took the Abu Ghraib situation and dismissed it as irrelevant, in fact, congratulated it as a brilliant maneuver. Was there any consideration to making the kinds of judgments that you made with the Howard Stern programming and just ceasing to offer it because it was offensive to the ideals of the American military?

ALLISON BARBER: I don't know of any serious consideration that was put to that specific issue. What I can say to you is that we're constantly reviewing what we carry on all of our networks -- 12 radio stations, six television stations -- and we are very responsive to our men and women in the military who is our target audience. And so, it's the challenge. When you open up the floodgates, when you open up these channels and say to them, we're going to give you choices, there's no way that you or I or anyone else would agree with everything you hear on the radio or everything you see on television. But what we have chosen to do is to put it out there and let the troops decide what they watch and what they listen to, just like we do here in America.

BOB GARFIELD: Okay, well Allison, thank you very much.

ALLISON BARBER: Okay. Thank you.

BOB GARFIELD: Allison Barber is a deputy assistant secretary of defense for public affairs.

http://www.wnyc.org/onthemedia/transcripts/transcripts_060404_grunts.html

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by reposts
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Over the thunder of the tanks Rush Limbaugh's voice is heard for an hour Monday through Friday in Baghdad.

"This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation and we're going to ruin people's lives over it and we're going to hamper our military effort," Limbaugh said on the air.

Such talk infuriated his critics, including U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin.

"This sends all the wrong signals to the troops," says Harkin. "Rush Limbaugh has a point of view. I mean, a dedicated, right wing point of view. That's fine. That's fine. But you should balance it on the other side also. Especially when it's being funded by other people's money."

American Forces Radio was created during World War II to inform troops about the war's progress and to boost morale.

Today, the Department of Defense says it provides a touch of home to soldiers, with sports, financial reports, science shows and 1,200 radio programs, including National Public Radio, which some consider liberal. There is no liberal talk show to counter Limbaugh.

"It's not about conservative or liberal. It's about the full selection of radio programming which is based on popularity here in the States," says Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Allison Barber.

Still, Howard Stern has millions of fans and his show is not sent to the troops.

Barber explains, "His issue is one of content that is not appropriate."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/02/radio.homefront/

Rush's forced conscripts
Armed Forces Radio fires a daily barrage of Rush Limbaugh at its million uniformed listeners. So why are liberals kept off its airwaves?

May 26, 2004 | President Bush has condemned the torture of Iraqi prisoners, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld labeled it "un-American" and a recent Gallup poll found 79 percent of Americans "bothered" by the abuses. But Rush Limbaugh was gleeful. For weeks, the conservative talk show host has been dismissing the scandal as a "fraternity prank," mocking Democrats and others for expressing outrage and suggesting the prison humiliation -- which he dubbed "a brilliant maneuver" -- was "no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation" at Yale. He described the images of torture as "pictures of homoeroticism that look like standard good old American pornography" and assured his listeners "there was no horror, there was no terror, there was no death, there was no injuries, nothing."

Limbaugh's increasingly bizarre comments about the military's widening prisoner abuse scandal -- the Pentagon acknowledges it's now investigating the deaths of 33 detainees, nine of whom were apparently beaten to death while in U.S. custody -- have forced a long-simmering question into the open: Why does Limbaugh's program, as the only hour-long, partisan political talk show broadcast daily to U.S. troops, enjoy exclusive access to American Forces Radio -- and American troops in Iraq?

"He says things like, liberals hate Americans, and we're trying to undermine the war on terror," says comedian Al Franken, a host for liberal radio station Air America who has also entertained troops on four USO tours. "It's a bad message for troops to be hearing and is a very skewed picture of what liberals and Democrats stand for. They're broadcasting a very, very partisan guy -- [with] nobody from the other side -- and they're using taxpayer money to do it."

"The government ought to make a greater effort to give a fair and balanced representation of political viewpoints on its airwaves to soldiers, sailors and airmen around the world listening," says Tom Athans, executive director of Democracy Radio, a nonprofit group in Washington that promotes political diversity on the airwaves. "It's important for the U.S. military, when using tax dollars, to not provide just one political perspective without giving consideration to opposing points of view."

After the Florida recount in 2000, when overseas military ballots were an important element in Bush's narrow victory, the influence of what amounts to propaganda beamed daily to U.S. troops must be considered a domestic political factor of no small consequence. "There's no question when one-side programming like American Forces Network is presented to troops, it's going to impact their voting behavior," says Athans.

Melvin Russell, director of American Forces Radio and Television Services, insists that Limbaugh's controversial show is broadcast for only one reason -- it gains big ratings in the United States. "We look at the most popular shows broadcast here in the United States and try to mirror that. [Limbaugh] is the No. 1 talk show host in the States; there's no question about that. Because of that we provide him on our service."

Russell says that if Franken, or any other syndicated liberal talk show host, can draw big enough ratings, then American Forces Radio would try to find a spot for that person on the schedule. "I'm hoping, if Air America takes off and someone on that show reaches the same level of audience Rush does, we could look to add them to the service. But there's nobody on the liberal side that compares to his ratings."

"To use ratings as an excuse not to offer fair and balanced programming is an insufficient reason," Athans counters. "American Forces Radio is funded by American taxpayers, not all of whom are conservative."

And if ratings drive the station's programming choices, then why not carry Howard Stern, who draws nearly 8 million listeners a week and who in recent months has emerged as President Bush's most high-profile critic on radio, declaring a "jihad" against the "arrogant bastard" in the White House? Although Stern's often-bawdy show differs from Limbaugh's politically, it fits Russell's criterion of being popular. "Stern today is a mirror reflection of what Americans are listening to," says Athans. In fact, Stern's ratings surged this year after he began leveling his broadsides against the Bush administration. "I strategize more about my radio show than Bush does about the war in Iraq," Stern quipped last month.

"My answer [on Stern]," says Russell, "is we have determined that that show, because of the [sexual] content, was not appropriate for a network that has just one or two stations broadcasting to an audience that ranges from 1-year-olds up to 50-year-olds."

"Rush Limbaugh is appropriate?" says Franken. "Saying the troops at Abu Ghraib were just blowing off steam -- that's more appropriate than what Howard Stern says? It sounds to me like they're rationalizing their decision." Adds Athans: "That sounds like censorship. In one breath, in regard to Limbaugh, they say they don't censor what the military listens to, and in the next breath they say Howard Stern is not appropriate."

"We don't censor, we provide," answers Russell. "Our troops deserve the same information that's available to them in the U.S."

Other critics of the network wonder if it's proper for the Pentagon to broadcast Limbaugh when he's calling John Kerry a skirt chaser, labeling female activists Nazis and telling servicemen and -women "what's good for al-Qaida is good for the Democratic Party in this country today."

The network, formerly known as Armed Forces Radio, was created by the War Department in 1942 to improve troop morale by giving service members a "touch of home" with American programs overseas. It added a television service in 1950. American Forces Radio beams "stereo audio services to over 1,000 outlets in more than 175 countries and U.S. territories, and on board U.S. Navy ships," according to its Web site. It reaches an audience of nearly 1 million with an innocuous lineup of classic rock, country and pop music, along with some sports telecasts, CNN's "Headline News" and Limbaugh's out-of-place radical rants.

Russell dismisses the charge that his network leans to the right. "That's not accurate. We carry a number of long-form programs from NPR. If you look at the 1,200 news and information programs we provide weekly, I feel they're fair and balanced." Most of those programs, however, are just a couple of minutes long. None of them approaches the entire hour Limbaugh gets every weekday -- in length or in pure partisanship. (Limbaugh's show in the States runs three hours daily, but to fit in as much programming as possible, American Forces Radio airs just the first hour.)

Limbaugh's actions off the air in the past nine months raise another question -- whether he is fit to be broadcast on American Forces Radio at all. Last fall Limbaugh was forced to quit his job as an ESPN football analyst after he made remarks about how the media, busy rooting for black quarterbacks to succeed in the National Football League, went easy on them in public. "When he surfaces outside his radio program, it doesn't take long for both viewers and news executives to decide his commentary is not acceptable to a mainstream audience," says David Brock, author of "The Republican Noise Machine." "What he said on ESPN was not unlike what he says on his radio show."

What's more, Limbaugh is currently under investigation by the West Palm Beach, Fla., prosecutor for alleged doctor shopping to obtain thousands of prescription painkillers. If he were in the military, Limbaugh would be disciplined, perhaps even court-martialed, for hate speech and illegal drug use. Now he's telling troops that the Abu Ghraib abuses were nothing but "a good time."

Limbaugh made all kinds of outrageous statements this year, even before he began condoning the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. According to the new Media Matters for America Web site, which monitors the right-wing press, between March 15 and April 29 "Limbaugh used the term 'femi-Nazis' eight times; he suggested that women want to be sexually harassed; he repeatedly equated Democrats with terrorists; he twice resurrected long-discredited right-wing claims that Clinton deputy White House counsel Vince Foster was murdered; he repeatedly called Senator John Kerry a 'gigolo'; he called Howard Dean 'a very sick man'; [and] he said Democrats 'hate this country.'" Is it appropriate for a military audience to be repeatedly beamed these messages?

Says Brock, who is president of Media Matters: "American Forces Radio makes choices based on content. The content of Limbaugh's comments has been so inflammatory that this may be an occasion for them to review the choices they've made. Has Limbaugh crossed the line? They'll have to address that."

Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, is upset by the right-wing tilt of American Forces Radio. "Senator Harkin was recently made aware of the situation and he's very concerned about it," says Maureen Knightly, his communications director. "He didn't realize [the station] leans that conservatively. It has raised a red flag. Taxpayers pay for it, and he feels there should be better balance in what's being aired." Harkin serves on the Senate Appropriations subcommittee that oversees Pentagon spending.

Eleven years ago it was Republican members of Congress whose pressure put Limbaugh on American Forces Radio in the first place. In 1993, then Rep. Robert Dornan, R-Calif., along with 69 other Republican House members, sent a letter to President Clinton's first secretary of defense, Les Aspin, demanding that both Limbaugh's radio show and his syndicated television show (on which Limbaugh compared preteen Chelsea Clinton to a dog) be broadcast to the military. "Limbaugh has been called by his liberal critics 'the most dangerous man in America.' It appears the liberal leadership at the Pentagon agrees with that ridiculous assertion," Dornan wrote. "The bottom line is that the troops want Rush Limbaugh, and you should see to it that they at least have that opportunity."

The Pentagon responded by pointing to an internal survey of 50,000 military listeners that found that only 4 percent requested more long-format talk radio. Most respondents overwhelmingly requested continuous music. The Pentagon also said that Limbaugh's daily three-hour radio program would monopolize too much of the network's limited airtime.

Notably, on Nov. 29, 1993, American Forces Radio and Television Services issued this statement: "The Rush Limbaugh Show makes no pretense that his show is balanced. If AFRTS scheduled a program of personal commentary without balancing it with another viewpoint, we would be open to broad criticism that we are supporting a particular point of view."

Yet just three days later, as the controversy was stoked in conservative media and Republicans cried censorship, Aspin called Limbaugh to assure him that the Pentagon would find a way to get his program on the then-named Armed Forces Radio.

"That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans," says Franken, noting that Democrats are much more likely to give in to mau-mauing from the right.

By early 1994, American Forces Radio had begun airing the first hour of Limbaugh's daily broadcast. Today, he's the sole long-format talker on American Forces Radio.

The current complaint about the rightward tilt of American Forces Radio is not a new one. In 2000, Democrats Abroad, the official party organization for the 6 million or so American citizens who live outside the United States, included in its platform the fact that the network "broadcast an overwhelming number of ultraconservative radio programs, such as Rush Limbaugh, James Dobson, Paul Harvey and news items with commentary from the extreme right-wing USA Radio Network with no programs supporting the Democratic Party as balance."

Ron Schlundt, chairman of Democrats Abroad in Germany, where Limbaugh's talk show airs every weeknight, has complained to American Forces Radio for years. "They tell me, 'You just don't like him because he's conservative.' And I say, 'No, my objection is that he's so partisan and that it's not appropriate on a government radio station to have somebody saying "We Republicans" five hours a week and not have anyone saying "I'm a Democrat" five hours a week.'" Schlundt says American Forces Radio told him that Limbaugh's show is balanced by the many NPR programs that are broadcast by the network.

Indeed, Russell pointed to long-format news and information programs such as "Morning Edition" and "Fresh Air" as evidence that the station offers a true political balance. But critics say comparing Limbaugh's malicious, partisan and error-strewn attacks with the content of NPR, one of the largest and most respected news organizations in the world (the closest U.S. news organization to the BBC), is absurd. "Nobody on NPR is doing the type of purely political commentary that Rush Limbaugh is doing," says Athans. "NPR struggles to be as balanced as it can."

In fact, according to a new study by the liberal watchdog group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting -- which analyzed the political affiliation of guests appearing last summer on NPR's most popular news shows -- Republicans outnumbered Democrats on NPR by 61 percent to 38 percent.

"Anybody who listened to Rush for one hour and to NPR for one hour would realize they're nothing like each other," says Franken. "Rush's message is that liberals hate America, while NPR is straight-ahead reporting and journalism."

Russell defends the programming of Limbaugh as a sensible middle course. "We get correspondence from both sides on the Rush Limbaugh subject, from 'Take him off' to 'Why don't you air all three hours?'" he says. And as long as Limbaugh remains the only political talk show host on American Forces Radio, Democracy Radio intends "to pressure this as an organization to make sure there's more balance," says Athans.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=52&threadid=1318099&enterthread=y
by socialists are against free speech
socialists are against free speech.

we'll shut down Rush right after we shut down Indy! OK idiots?
§?
by ?
"socialists are against free speech."

The US government is using US tax money to send a partisan political message to US troops.
by by definition
by definition all politics has a one sided message. adding some balance to what they hear by countering the, too prevalent, socialist network (such as this site) is healthy.

Or, do you advocate no message at all?

Or JUST your viewpoint (as misguided as it is)
The state is pumping money into Rush and promoting a one-sided political message to US troops. That is not only ilegal but its also state interference in the private sector since aside from the impact on troops (who cant choose to listen to other points of view since Rush is all they get in terms of political opinion on their radios), it acts as a subsidy to Rush violating a lot of the values conservatives pretend to hold dear.
by --^--^--^--^--
I already added my comments - twice - but I see that they have since been removed in favor of the interview by Karl Marx above or whoever that is.

Nice censorship, commies!

By the way - Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern can both be listened to over the web - now answer me damn it!!! - how are you going to censor that, eh Commissar?
by James Mitchell
Huh, NPR "National Public Radio" is taxpayer funded and I can't remember ever hearing a conservative on there "Balance" out the leftists. I don't want my money going to fund the "one sided" radio stations!
by more info
When the Public Broadcasting Service was set up 37 years ago, its founders made various bylaws to insure that it could operate entirely free of political pressure. So for many years, the American right, which saw the network as a mouthpiece for the left, tried to divert public support away from the network. But now, according to New Yorker Ken Auletta, Republicans are changing course. He tells Brooke about how conservatives are changing PBS from the inside-out.

...

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Let's talk about those shows. CPB is backing the creation of programs with a right wing tilt like that of conservative Crossfire co-host Tucker Carlson and Wall Street Journal editorial page editor Paul Gigot. CPB will support those programs, but it says it has no intention of supporting Bill Moyers' Now. This agenda is pretty transparent, isn't it?

KEN AULETTA: It seems so to me. And part of that transparency is when I asked the chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Ken Tomlinson, I said "What is it you want to have?" He said "I want a neutral host. And my model is," he said, "C-Span." Well, the truth of the matter is that neither Tucker Carlson who, you know, is -- no criticism of him personally nor of Paul Gigot -- again, no criticism of him personally -- but neither of them are neutral hosts.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Let's talk about what the Public Broadcasting Act of 1967 said about the role of public broadcasting. Is the number one element supposed to be balance? Is it supposed to be an alternative? Is it supposed to serve the under-served and give voices to minorities?

KEN AULETTA: All of those are things that PBS, by the legislation that was passed in 1967, it's supposed to do. Now, how you prioritize that and which you value most is a question worthy of public debate. To date, we have not had that public debate.

http://www.wnyc.org/onthemedia/transcripts/transcripts_060404_pbs.html
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