Publish to Newswire
Add an EventFrom the Open-Publishing Calendar
From the Open-Publishing Newswire
Indybay Feature
Intimidation by Israeli-Linked Organization MEMRI Aimed at US Academic Juan Cole
This was on Juan Cole's site today:
I just checked my campus mail and found a letter in it from Colonel Yigal Carmon, late of Israeli military intelligence, now an official at the Middle East Media Research Organization, or MEMRI. He threatened me with a lawsuit over blog comments I made here at Informed Comment, reprinted at anti-war.com. This technique of the SLAPP or Strategic Lawsuits against Public Participation had already been pioneered by polluting industries against environmental activists, and now the pro-Likud lobby in the US has apparently decided to try it out against people like me.
I urge all readers to send messages of protest to memri [at] memri.org. Please be polite, and simply urge MEMRI, which has a major Web presence, to withdraw the lawsuit threat and to respect the spirit of the free sharing of ideas that makes the internet possible.
Here is the letter:
' November 8, 2004
Professor Juan Cole
University of Michigan History Department
1029 Tisch Hall
435 S. State Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1003
Dear Professor Cole,
I write in response to your article "Osama Threatening Red States?" published on November 3, 2004 on antiwar.com. The article included several statements about MEMRI which go beyond what could be considered legitimate criticism, and which in fact qualify as slander and libel. While we respect your right to argue the veracity of our translations, you certainly may not fabricate information about our organization. You make several claims that are patently false:
Trying to paint MEMRI in a conspiratorial manner by portraying us as a rich, sinister group, you write that "MEMRI is funded to the tune of $60 million a year." This is completely false.
You also write that MEMRI is an "anti-Arab propaganda machine" that "cherry-picks the vast Arabic press." If you have any level of familiarity with MEMRI, you should be aware of our Reform Project, which is one of the most important of MEMRI's projects, and which receives much of our energy and resources. The Reform Project (http://www.memri.org/reform.html) is devoted solely to finding and amplifying the progressive voices in the Arab world. It is especially disappointing that these charges do not come from an overzealous journalist, but from a member of the academic community, from whom one should be able to expect at least the minimum amount of research and corroboration.
In addition, you write that "MEMRI is one of a number of public relations campaigns essentially on behalf of the far right-wing Likud Party in Israel." This, too, is completely false. MEMRI is totally unaffiliated with any government, and receives no government funding. While I was formerly an Israeli official (and retired more than a decade ago), I have never been affiliated with the Likud Party, or any other party.
As such, we demand that you retract the false statements you have made about MEMRI. If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of. We hope this will not be necessary.
Sincerely,
[signed]
Yigal Carmon
Colonel Carmon's letter makes three charges: 1) that I alleged that MEMRI receives $60 million a year for its operations. 2) That I alleged that MEMRI cherry-picks the vast Arab press for articles that make the Arabs look bad. 3) That I said that MEMRI was affiliated with the Likud Party.
This is how I would reply:
1) I am glad to publish the annual funding of MEMRI, and its sources, as provided by Colonel Carmon, if he will tell us what the figure is, which he has not. As a historian, I have no desire to have anything but the facts in evidence. MEMRI obviously a well-funded operation, as any familiarity with its scope and activities would make clear. In the meantime, I am glad to acknowledge that the figure I gave has been disputed by Colonel Carmon. I think he would find that in democratic countries, in any case, a dispute over an organization's level of funding would be laughed out of court as a basis for a libel action. In fact, I am giggling as I write this.
2) I continue to maintain that MEMRI is selective and biased against the Arab press, and that it highlights pieces that cast Arabs, especially committed Muslims, in a negative light. That it also rewards secular Arabs for being secularists is entirely beside the point (and this is the function of the "reform" site). On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigotted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the Web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated.
3) I did not allege that MEMRI or Colonel Carmon are "affiliated" with the Likud Party. What I said was that MEMRI functions as a PR campaign for Likud Party goals. Colonel Carmon and Meyrav Wurmser, who run MEMRI, were both die-hard opponents of the Oslo peace process, and so ipso facto were identified with the Likud rejectionists on that central issue.
Colonel Carmon was not a formal member of the Likud party while serving in Israeli military intelligence because active-duty military are not usually involved in civilian political parties. Since he retired to the US, he did not have the occasion to join the Likud, but there seems little question that if he were living in Israel he would vote for Likud rather than Labor, given his public stances.
So, the charge, that I claimed an "affiliation" of MEMRI with Likud, isn't true in the first place, and there is nothing to retract. That issue almost certainly generated the entire letter. MEMRI is a 501 (c) 3 organization, which is tax exempt in US law, and therefore cannot engage in (much) directly political activity without endangering its exemption. I don't think MEMRI does so directly intervene in politics as to make its 501 (c) 3 status questionable. But it is obvious that 501 (c) 3 is widely abused by rightwing think tanks.
More discussion on MEMRI on the Web can be found here.
I've said all I am going to say to Colonel Carmon just now. Israeli military intelligence is used to being able to censor the Israeli press and to intimidate journalists, and it is a bit shocking that Carmon should imagine that such intimidation would work in a free society.
I will add another criticism of MEMRI, which is that it systematically violates the intellectual property of Arab writers by appropriating their content without paying for it and storing them on its servers, and then claiming copyright in their work as translated. This is a shameful way of proceeding. Where the source articles are published in a country that is signatory to the major international copyright agreements, it may be illegal. All sites dealing in other languages do quote or translate from time to time, which falls under fair use. But MEMRI has a much more systematic set of appropriations going.
MEMRI has begun taking out blog ads. Since it can hardly go about threatening bloggers with lawsuits without violating the essential spirit of open discourse on the Web, it has forfeited any claim on our eyeballs. I urge all bloggers to decline advertisements from MEMRI until such time as Colonel Carmon withdraws his outrageous threat.
http://www.juancole.com/2004/11/intimidation-by-israeli-linked.html
I urge all readers to send messages of protest to memri [at] memri.org. Please be polite, and simply urge MEMRI, which has a major Web presence, to withdraw the lawsuit threat and to respect the spirit of the free sharing of ideas that makes the internet possible.
Here is the letter:
' November 8, 2004
Professor Juan Cole
University of Michigan History Department
1029 Tisch Hall
435 S. State Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1003
Dear Professor Cole,
I write in response to your article "Osama Threatening Red States?" published on November 3, 2004 on antiwar.com. The article included several statements about MEMRI which go beyond what could be considered legitimate criticism, and which in fact qualify as slander and libel. While we respect your right to argue the veracity of our translations, you certainly may not fabricate information about our organization. You make several claims that are patently false:
Trying to paint MEMRI in a conspiratorial manner by portraying us as a rich, sinister group, you write that "MEMRI is funded to the tune of $60 million a year." This is completely false.
You also write that MEMRI is an "anti-Arab propaganda machine" that "cherry-picks the vast Arabic press." If you have any level of familiarity with MEMRI, you should be aware of our Reform Project, which is one of the most important of MEMRI's projects, and which receives much of our energy and resources. The Reform Project (http://www.memri.org/reform.html) is devoted solely to finding and amplifying the progressive voices in the Arab world. It is especially disappointing that these charges do not come from an overzealous journalist, but from a member of the academic community, from whom one should be able to expect at least the minimum amount of research and corroboration.
In addition, you write that "MEMRI is one of a number of public relations campaigns essentially on behalf of the far right-wing Likud Party in Israel." This, too, is completely false. MEMRI is totally unaffiliated with any government, and receives no government funding. While I was formerly an Israeli official (and retired more than a decade ago), I have never been affiliated with the Likud Party, or any other party.
As such, we demand that you retract the false statements you have made about MEMRI. If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of. We hope this will not be necessary.
Sincerely,
[signed]
Yigal Carmon
Colonel Carmon's letter makes three charges: 1) that I alleged that MEMRI receives $60 million a year for its operations. 2) That I alleged that MEMRI cherry-picks the vast Arab press for articles that make the Arabs look bad. 3) That I said that MEMRI was affiliated with the Likud Party.
This is how I would reply:
1) I am glad to publish the annual funding of MEMRI, and its sources, as provided by Colonel Carmon, if he will tell us what the figure is, which he has not. As a historian, I have no desire to have anything but the facts in evidence. MEMRI obviously a well-funded operation, as any familiarity with its scope and activities would make clear. In the meantime, I am glad to acknowledge that the figure I gave has been disputed by Colonel Carmon. I think he would find that in democratic countries, in any case, a dispute over an organization's level of funding would be laughed out of court as a basis for a libel action. In fact, I am giggling as I write this.
2) I continue to maintain that MEMRI is selective and biased against the Arab press, and that it highlights pieces that cast Arabs, especially committed Muslims, in a negative light. That it also rewards secular Arabs for being secularists is entirely beside the point (and this is the function of the "reform" site). On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigotted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the Web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated.
3) I did not allege that MEMRI or Colonel Carmon are "affiliated" with the Likud Party. What I said was that MEMRI functions as a PR campaign for Likud Party goals. Colonel Carmon and Meyrav Wurmser, who run MEMRI, were both die-hard opponents of the Oslo peace process, and so ipso facto were identified with the Likud rejectionists on that central issue.
Colonel Carmon was not a formal member of the Likud party while serving in Israeli military intelligence because active-duty military are not usually involved in civilian political parties. Since he retired to the US, he did not have the occasion to join the Likud, but there seems little question that if he were living in Israel he would vote for Likud rather than Labor, given his public stances.
So, the charge, that I claimed an "affiliation" of MEMRI with Likud, isn't true in the first place, and there is nothing to retract. That issue almost certainly generated the entire letter. MEMRI is a 501 (c) 3 organization, which is tax exempt in US law, and therefore cannot engage in (much) directly political activity without endangering its exemption. I don't think MEMRI does so directly intervene in politics as to make its 501 (c) 3 status questionable. But it is obvious that 501 (c) 3 is widely abused by rightwing think tanks.
More discussion on MEMRI on the Web can be found here.
I've said all I am going to say to Colonel Carmon just now. Israeli military intelligence is used to being able to censor the Israeli press and to intimidate journalists, and it is a bit shocking that Carmon should imagine that such intimidation would work in a free society.
I will add another criticism of MEMRI, which is that it systematically violates the intellectual property of Arab writers by appropriating their content without paying for it and storing them on its servers, and then claiming copyright in their work as translated. This is a shameful way of proceeding. Where the source articles are published in a country that is signatory to the major international copyright agreements, it may be illegal. All sites dealing in other languages do quote or translate from time to time, which falls under fair use. But MEMRI has a much more systematic set of appropriations going.
MEMRI has begun taking out blog ads. Since it can hardly go about threatening bloggers with lawsuits without violating the essential spirit of open discourse on the Web, it has forfeited any claim on our eyeballs. I urge all bloggers to decline advertisements from MEMRI until such time as Colonel Carmon withdraws his outrageous threat.
http://www.juancole.com/2004/11/intimidation-by-israeli-linked.html
Add Your Comments
Comments
(Hide Comments)
Many thanks to all the readers who have written in response to my posting about the attempt of the Israel-linked MEMRI "translation service" to intimidate me with the threat of a lawsuit.
Many of the letters have been eye-opening, and I give an example, which seems to me especially instructive, below.
Dear Mr Carmon,
I regularly read Dr Cole's weblog, Informed Comment. This is an excellent service that summarizes reports from published in the Arabic press about events about that part of the world. I was dismayed to learn that you and your organization, MEMRI, have threatened to sue Dr Cole over some comments he made regarding your selection of material from the Arabic press. In your letter to him, you indicate that his suggestion that your organization "cherry-picks the vast Arabic press" is "patently false".
Curious, I had a look at your website and found my way to "Cartoons from the Middle East Media". This area contained about 750 cartoons, divided into four categories essentially based on whether their targets were Israel, the USA, or both countries. After reading through a sample of these, I came to two plausible conclusions: either 1) Arabic cartoonists are a singularly unimaginative lot, and are essentially incapable of publishing anything that pokes fun at anybody in the world other than Americans, Israelis and Jews or 2) that your claims to be presenting "representative" material from the Arabic press may not be entirely based in reality.
Again, I decided to see for myself and looked at cartoons in a few Arabic papers online. What I found was a wide variety of political cartoons about people and politicians from the Arab world, Europe, the UN, and, admittedly, Israel and the USA, although the latter were in proportions far, far smaller than your website would appear to suggest. Frankly, I find your claim to being objective in selecting items for your website to be woefully at odds with what is actually presented there. In all seriousness, I don't understand how you could expect any intelligent person to perceive it as such. Clearly Dr Cole does not, and I respectfully request that you withdraw your threat to sue him for publishing a perfectly valid viewpoint regarding MEMRI's choice of material on its website.
Respectfully yours . . .
http://www.juancole.com/
Many of the letters have been eye-opening, and I give an example, which seems to me especially instructive, below.
Dear Mr Carmon,
I regularly read Dr Cole's weblog, Informed Comment. This is an excellent service that summarizes reports from published in the Arabic press about events about that part of the world. I was dismayed to learn that you and your organization, MEMRI, have threatened to sue Dr Cole over some comments he made regarding your selection of material from the Arabic press. In your letter to him, you indicate that his suggestion that your organization "cherry-picks the vast Arabic press" is "patently false".
Curious, I had a look at your website and found my way to "Cartoons from the Middle East Media". This area contained about 750 cartoons, divided into four categories essentially based on whether their targets were Israel, the USA, or both countries. After reading through a sample of these, I came to two plausible conclusions: either 1) Arabic cartoonists are a singularly unimaginative lot, and are essentially incapable of publishing anything that pokes fun at anybody in the world other than Americans, Israelis and Jews or 2) that your claims to be presenting "representative" material from the Arabic press may not be entirely based in reality.
Again, I decided to see for myself and looked at cartoons in a few Arabic papers online. What I found was a wide variety of political cartoons about people and politicians from the Arab world, Europe, the UN, and, admittedly, Israel and the USA, although the latter were in proportions far, far smaller than your website would appear to suggest. Frankly, I find your claim to being objective in selecting items for your website to be woefully at odds with what is actually presented there. In all seriousness, I don't understand how you could expect any intelligent person to perceive it as such. Clearly Dr Cole does not, and I respectfully request that you withdraw your threat to sue him for publishing a perfectly valid viewpoint regarding MEMRI's choice of material on its website.
Respectfully yours . . .
http://www.juancole.com/
Yigal Carmon is a serious guy with highly respected journalist credentials. Cole is a two-bit joke of an academic and an anti-Semite.
"Yigal Carmon is a serious guy with highly respected journalist credentials. Cole is a two-bit joke of an academic and an anti-Semite"
Cole is an idiot. I heard him interviews on the left wing Al Franken show...even Franken had problems with this "expert's" distortion and lies.
Cole is an idiot. I heard him interviews on the left wing Al Franken show...even Franken had problems with this "expert's" distortion and lies.
[Yigal Carmon is a serious guy with highly respected journalist credentials. Cole is a two-bit joke of an academic and an anti-Semite.
add your comments
A liar and phoney "expert"
by Cole is an idiot Wednesday, Nov. 24, 2004 at 10:51 AM
"Yigal Carmon is a serious guy with highly respected journalist credentials. Cole is a two-bit joke of an academic and an anti-Semite"
Cole is an idiot. I heard him interviews on the left wing Al Franken show...even Franken had problems with this "expert's" distortion and lies.]
if I had any doubts, they have been dispelled
just another neo-conservative effort to try to intimidate someone who challenges their propagandistic nonsense
for example, Judith Miller, the NYT reporter who wrote numerous false stories about Iraq's possession of WMDs, has been involved with MEMRI
and, if Carmon has such great "journalistic credentials", why is he threatening the First Amendment rights of Cole?
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
add your comments
A liar and phoney "expert"
by Cole is an idiot Wednesday, Nov. 24, 2004 at 10:51 AM
"Yigal Carmon is a serious guy with highly respected journalist credentials. Cole is a two-bit joke of an academic and an anti-Semite"
Cole is an idiot. I heard him interviews on the left wing Al Franken show...even Franken had problems with this "expert's" distortion and lies.]
if I had any doubts, they have been dispelled
just another neo-conservative effort to try to intimidate someone who challenges their propagandistic nonsense
for example, Judith Miller, the NYT reporter who wrote numerous false stories about Iraq's possession of WMDs, has been involved with MEMRI
and, if Carmon has such great "journalistic credentials", why is he threatening the First Amendment rights of Cole?
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
This person first establishes that MEMRI "is funded to the tune of $60 million a year". Then, when faced by a threat of legal action by Carmon, Mr. Cole, rather than reiterating his claim and trying to back it up, is putting the onus on Carmon to prove him wrong.
One should really ask, why would Mr. Cole act that way if he's being honest on that one point?
Why isn't he defending his claim?
If his research was beyond fault, why is he now talking as if his research into MEMRI's funding was less than adequate to begin with?
Furthermore, if he knows he's wrong, why isn't he retracting that particular claim?
Finally, if Carmon provided the figure, what would Mr. Cole do then?
I can't avoid the distinct impression that Mr. Cole's behavior does suck.
One should really ask, why would Mr. Cole act that way if he's being honest on that one point?
Why isn't he defending his claim?
If his research was beyond fault, why is he now talking as if his research into MEMRI's funding was less than adequate to begin with?
Furthermore, if he knows he's wrong, why isn't he retracting that particular claim?
Finally, if Carmon provided the figure, what would Mr. Cole do then?
I can't avoid the distinct impression that Mr. Cole's behavior does suck.
as anyone who reads Cole's response can tell
another instance of "mixing in sand" (trying to puff up a small issue into a big one)
who cares if Cole is right or wrong about how much money MEMRI really gets?
and, to show how truly bizarre it is, most non-profits would actually love to have the public believe that they are flush with money from enthusiastic contributors
but, of course, it has nothing to do with what MEMRI really cares about, Cole's exposure of MEMRI's selective translation of articles from Middle Eastern media
if Cole has the ability to pay for a good legal defense, I hope MEMRI really does sue him, because, then Cole will get the chance to do some discovery, and then everyone will really learn with MEMRI is about
which is why MEMRI is going to back off, and leave it alone
and, by the way, maybe someone can get back to my question as to why someone like Carmon who is described as a well regarded journalist, would be engaged in this kind of crude, embarassing intimidation?
most journalists try to promote themselves by correcting other journalists, not by trying to infringe their First Amendment rights
and, if Carmon is so concerned about false reporting, what does he have to say about the bogus reporting of his MEMRI affiliated friend, Judith Miller?
malicious errors designed to persuade the public to back a war in Iraq under false pretenses
anyone, please provide citations to anything that Carmon has written or said about it for the benefit of all of us
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
another instance of "mixing in sand" (trying to puff up a small issue into a big one)
who cares if Cole is right or wrong about how much money MEMRI really gets?
and, to show how truly bizarre it is, most non-profits would actually love to have the public believe that they are flush with money from enthusiastic contributors
but, of course, it has nothing to do with what MEMRI really cares about, Cole's exposure of MEMRI's selective translation of articles from Middle Eastern media
if Cole has the ability to pay for a good legal defense, I hope MEMRI really does sue him, because, then Cole will get the chance to do some discovery, and then everyone will really learn with MEMRI is about
which is why MEMRI is going to back off, and leave it alone
and, by the way, maybe someone can get back to my question as to why someone like Carmon who is described as a well regarded journalist, would be engaged in this kind of crude, embarassing intimidation?
most journalists try to promote themselves by correcting other journalists, not by trying to infringe their First Amendment rights
and, if Carmon is so concerned about false reporting, what does he have to say about the bogus reporting of his MEMRI affiliated friend, Judith Miller?
malicious errors designed to persuade the public to back a war in Iraq under false pretenses
anyone, please provide citations to anything that Carmon has written or said about it for the benefit of all of us
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
>>>"who cares if Cole is right or wrong about how much money MEMRI really gets?"<<<
As a somewhat curious onlooker, I certainly care. So does every other person who gives a damn about people getting their facts straight before they set out to make certain accusations or charges.
The aspect of funding isn't nonsense and Mr. Cole wouldn't have discussed it as he did if he had considered it such. It was Mr. Cole in his retort to Carmon who set the level of importance he attaches to the funding issue as no insignificant matter (even if not chief among the three). Your rather arrogant attempt to dismiss a legitimate concern about what appears, at least to some, to be groundless slander, as well as to downplay the weight of Mr. Cole's charge concerning the MEMRI funding through a catchy phrase just passes by, leaving no impression.
As a somewhat curious onlooker, I certainly care. So does every other person who gives a damn about people getting their facts straight before they set out to make certain accusations or charges.
The aspect of funding isn't nonsense and Mr. Cole wouldn't have discussed it as he did if he had considered it such. It was Mr. Cole in his retort to Carmon who set the level of importance he attaches to the funding issue as no insignificant matter (even if not chief among the three). Your rather arrogant attempt to dismiss a legitimate concern about what appears, at least to some, to be groundless slander, as well as to downplay the weight of Mr. Cole's charge concerning the MEMRI funding through a catchy phrase just passes by, leaving no impression.
I'm really glad MEMRI sued Juan Close, but I hope they drop the suit. If they hadnt tried to sue him I probably would never have noticed his critque of them and I have read their site ( http://www.memri.org/ ) several times in the past via Google search results without realizing it was a neocon propaganda site.
I wish there was a left-wing or nonideological site that translated the MIddle Eastern press to give us a better idea of what people think in the region.
Sites like:
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
http://arabnews.com/
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/
http://www.albawaba.com/main/index.ns.php3?lang=e
http://gulf-daily-news.com/
http://gulf-times.com/site/topics/index.asp?cu_no=2&temp_type=44
http://dailystar.com.lb/home.asp?edition_id=10
http://www.yementimes.com/
etc..
do provide a look at what the Arab press is saying and its very very different than what one sees on MEMRI, but then again its not the same as the Arab language coverage (most sites hire a completely different set of writers for their english langauge news and the target audience is also different).
One solution are the free online translators (like the one on the front page of http://www.systransoft.com/ ) but they dont always work and dont seem to do a very good job.
I'm not sure about the quality or accuracy of MEMRI's translation but if it is as Juan Cole describes it would be comparable to a site summarzing the US press via the National Review, Front Page Magazine, Aryan Nations Newspapers and Fox News (speaking of which look at http://www.memri.org/aboutus.html and see who is quoted as liking MEMRI's site; some names are innocent but others would never endorse a nonpartisan site). While many Americans are jingoistic, racist, and even made comments about nuking Mecca in the days after 9/11 (even in somewhat mainstream op eds) a site trying to make all Americans out to believe such things would be clearly distorting the truth. MEMRI seems to be doing something similar with a similar goal of demonizing most of the Arab world except for segments of the societies that might be useful for conservative US or Israeli interests.
Juan Cole is read by a lot of people but if MEMRI sues him and make a big deal about his critique of them, the result will be evenmore mainstream coverage of MEMRI which should decrease their influence (since their only power comes from them being seen as nonbiased and influencing people who read their site not knowing better).
I wish there was a left-wing or nonideological site that translated the MIddle Eastern press to give us a better idea of what people think in the region.
Sites like:
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
http://arabnews.com/
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/
http://www.albawaba.com/main/index.ns.php3?lang=e
http://gulf-daily-news.com/
http://gulf-times.com/site/topics/index.asp?cu_no=2&temp_type=44
http://dailystar.com.lb/home.asp?edition_id=10
http://www.yementimes.com/
etc..
do provide a look at what the Arab press is saying and its very very different than what one sees on MEMRI, but then again its not the same as the Arab language coverage (most sites hire a completely different set of writers for their english langauge news and the target audience is also different).
One solution are the free online translators (like the one on the front page of http://www.systransoft.com/ ) but they dont always work and dont seem to do a very good job.
I'm not sure about the quality or accuracy of MEMRI's translation but if it is as Juan Cole describes it would be comparable to a site summarzing the US press via the National Review, Front Page Magazine, Aryan Nations Newspapers and Fox News (speaking of which look at http://www.memri.org/aboutus.html and see who is quoted as liking MEMRI's site; some names are innocent but others would never endorse a nonpartisan site). While many Americans are jingoistic, racist, and even made comments about nuking Mecca in the days after 9/11 (even in somewhat mainstream op eds) a site trying to make all Americans out to believe such things would be clearly distorting the truth. MEMRI seems to be doing something similar with a similar goal of demonizing most of the Arab world except for segments of the societies that might be useful for conservative US or Israeli interests.
Juan Cole is read by a lot of people but if MEMRI sues him and make a big deal about his critique of them, the result will be evenmore mainstream coverage of MEMRI which should decrease their influence (since their only power comes from them being seen as nonbiased and influencing people who read their site not knowing better).
" Juan Cole"
Simply put, he's a liar...
Simply put, he's a liar...
Does "Arabist" somehow mean Juan cole is evil because he views things the same as the Arabs (who in your mind hold one view of things)?
He is a moderate left-of center secular Democrat who opposed the Iraq war but also opposes the Iraqi Resistance.
If that were not true and he really does reflect most views in the region wouldnt that make MEMRI out to be complete liars? MEMRI's stated aim is to provide a glimpse to outsiders of what the Arab press is saying; if Juan Close is a "Arabist" and somehow just reflects what most people in the region think than MEMRI's site should contain stuff that looks like whats on Juan Coles site (but it doesnt).
MEMRI picks out stuff from the Arab Press that will clearly offend Westerners (and a sprinking of proneocon stuff when it appears) and calls that a reflection of the views in the region. If you were to hold a racist view that what MEMRI shows reflects on the "Arab street" and should be taken as anything other than slander, you would have to also believe that Juan Cole isnt reflective of the "Arab street" and thus could in no way be described as an "Arabist"
Juan Cole probably reflect the views of some reform minded intellectuals in the region. There isnt one Arab view of the world anymore than there is one Caucasian view of the world or one African American view of the world. The term Arabist is pretty fucking racist when you think about (imagine similar terms for other ethnic groups and they would be too offensive to use on this website)
He is a moderate left-of center secular Democrat who opposed the Iraq war but also opposes the Iraqi Resistance.
If that were not true and he really does reflect most views in the region wouldnt that make MEMRI out to be complete liars? MEMRI's stated aim is to provide a glimpse to outsiders of what the Arab press is saying; if Juan Close is a "Arabist" and somehow just reflects what most people in the region think than MEMRI's site should contain stuff that looks like whats on Juan Coles site (but it doesnt).
MEMRI picks out stuff from the Arab Press that will clearly offend Westerners (and a sprinking of proneocon stuff when it appears) and calls that a reflection of the views in the region. If you were to hold a racist view that what MEMRI shows reflects on the "Arab street" and should be taken as anything other than slander, you would have to also believe that Juan Cole isnt reflective of the "Arab street" and thus could in no way be described as an "Arabist"
Juan Cole probably reflect the views of some reform minded intellectuals in the region. There isnt one Arab view of the world anymore than there is one Caucasian view of the world or one African American view of the world. The term Arabist is pretty fucking racist when you think about (imagine similar terms for other ethnic groups and they would be too offensive to use on this website)
"Does "Arabist" somehow mean Juan cole is evil because he views things the same as the Arabs "
It means he forgives and supports the dastardly deeds done by arabs,
It also means that he willingly distorts the truth and makes up"history" to suit his bloody agenda...
It means he forgives and supports the dastardly deeds done by arabs,
It also means that he willingly distorts the truth and makes up"history" to suit his bloody agenda...
[>>>"who cares if Cole is right or wrong about how much money MEMRI really gets?"<<<
As a somewhat curious onlooker, I certainly care. So does every other person who gives a damn about people getting their facts straight before they set out to make certain accusations or charges.
The aspect of funding isn't nonsense and Mr. Cole wouldn't have discussed it as he did if he had considered it such. It was Mr. Cole in his retort to Carmon who set the level of importance he attaches to the funding issue as no insignificant matter (even if not chief among the three). Your rather arrogant attempt to dismiss a legitimate concern about what appears, at least to some, to be groundless slander, as well as to downplay the weight of Mr. Cole's charge concerning the MEMRI funding through a catchy phrase just passes by, leaving no impression.]
. . . . . . given that, about a week or so ago, you claimed, on a much more critical issue, I might add, that Likud had built settlements at a faster rate than Labor in the post-Oslo period, and you were wrong, the Labor Prime Minister Barak accelerated settlement expansion at faster rate than anyone
assuming you are the same "Critical Thinker", and not one of a group of people posting under that name
and, by the way, since when is the amount of funding that an organization gets an "accusation" or "charges"? and, since when is an error about the amount of funding MEMRI receives a "slander" (assuming Cole is actually incorrect, which we don't know), when there is virtually no harm that would come from it, and, indeed, as I've already noted, most organizations like to look like well funded, popular organizations?
perhaps, a Freudian slip, a sensitivity that there is something strange lurking beneath the surface? after all, Carmon is actually described in the article as a former Israeli intelligence officer, not a journalist, so maybe that provides a clue where MEMRI actually gets some of its funding? or, maybe, MEMRI may have actually have ties to the American and Israeli intelligence communities?
indeed, the last point is irrefutable, as Carmon is openly described as a former Israeli intelligence operative
perhaps, MEMRI can proceed to sue Cole, and everything will come out in the wash, and, if the federal government intervenes to stop it on the grounds of "national security", then we will definitely know the true story
and, what about Carmon, MEMRI and Judith Miller? as MEMRI is concerned about fidelity to the straight facts, what does he and MEMRI have to say about it?
certainly, he and MEMRI must have condemned her shoddy journalism that created the false impression that Iraq had WMDs of mass destruction at a time when Bush was seeking public support for his planned war against Iraq
a much bigger issue, after all, than how much money funds MEMRI
as an aside, I really enjoy your empurpled prose, your aggressive adjectives and adverbs, it reminds me of when I worked as a superior court research attorney in the criminal law field, and, the more of these accusatory adjectives and adverbs I encountered in an attorney's pleading, the more I knew that his argument had no merit
and the other poster after you has it right, the more this continues, the more it will hurt MEMRI, as it appears that Cole has struck a raw nerve, a reflection of the possibility that MEMRI's credibility in the wake of the Iraq disaster had already been impaired prior to his comments
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
As a somewhat curious onlooker, I certainly care. So does every other person who gives a damn about people getting their facts straight before they set out to make certain accusations or charges.
The aspect of funding isn't nonsense and Mr. Cole wouldn't have discussed it as he did if he had considered it such. It was Mr. Cole in his retort to Carmon who set the level of importance he attaches to the funding issue as no insignificant matter (even if not chief among the three). Your rather arrogant attempt to dismiss a legitimate concern about what appears, at least to some, to be groundless slander, as well as to downplay the weight of Mr. Cole's charge concerning the MEMRI funding through a catchy phrase just passes by, leaving no impression.]
. . . . . . given that, about a week or so ago, you claimed, on a much more critical issue, I might add, that Likud had built settlements at a faster rate than Labor in the post-Oslo period, and you were wrong, the Labor Prime Minister Barak accelerated settlement expansion at faster rate than anyone
assuming you are the same "Critical Thinker", and not one of a group of people posting under that name
and, by the way, since when is the amount of funding that an organization gets an "accusation" or "charges"? and, since when is an error about the amount of funding MEMRI receives a "slander" (assuming Cole is actually incorrect, which we don't know), when there is virtually no harm that would come from it, and, indeed, as I've already noted, most organizations like to look like well funded, popular organizations?
perhaps, a Freudian slip, a sensitivity that there is something strange lurking beneath the surface? after all, Carmon is actually described in the article as a former Israeli intelligence officer, not a journalist, so maybe that provides a clue where MEMRI actually gets some of its funding? or, maybe, MEMRI may have actually have ties to the American and Israeli intelligence communities?
indeed, the last point is irrefutable, as Carmon is openly described as a former Israeli intelligence operative
perhaps, MEMRI can proceed to sue Cole, and everything will come out in the wash, and, if the federal government intervenes to stop it on the grounds of "national security", then we will definitely know the true story
and, what about Carmon, MEMRI and Judith Miller? as MEMRI is concerned about fidelity to the straight facts, what does he and MEMRI have to say about it?
certainly, he and MEMRI must have condemned her shoddy journalism that created the false impression that Iraq had WMDs of mass destruction at a time when Bush was seeking public support for his planned war against Iraq
a much bigger issue, after all, than how much money funds MEMRI
as an aside, I really enjoy your empurpled prose, your aggressive adjectives and adverbs, it reminds me of when I worked as a superior court research attorney in the criminal law field, and, the more of these accusatory adjectives and adverbs I encountered in an attorney's pleading, the more I knew that his argument had no merit
and the other poster after you has it right, the more this continues, the more it will hurt MEMRI, as it appears that Cole has struck a raw nerve, a reflection of the possibility that MEMRI's credibility in the wake of the Iraq disaster had already been impaired prior to his comments
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
"Arabism is Nazism"
So now right wingers are saying that if you have any sympathy for anyone who is Arab you are by definition anti-Semitic? Do this make all Mizrahi Jews Nazis?
Its strange that things have gotten twisted around so much that NOT seeing an ethnic group as sub-human makes one a Nazi.
So now right wingers are saying that if you have any sympathy for anyone who is Arab you are by definition anti-Semitic? Do this make all Mizrahi Jews Nazis?
Its strange that things have gotten twisted around so much that NOT seeing an ethnic group as sub-human makes one a Nazi.
not least by referring back to an exchange on another topic that we had, ostensibly in an attempt to create an impression that since I already erred about one detail regarding another topic (or so you claim), it's more plausible to reach the conclusion I'm mistaken on *this* topic. (Btw, my remarks then weren't about the variations of rate or pace of settlement expansion or construction from the term of a certain Israeli government as opposed to the others, but rather about the *quantity* aspect of the issue.)
As for Cole's claim about MEMRI's funding, my reply may very well seem lame to you, but again, Mr. Cole sounds like someone who had been caught in some wrongdoing, is wriggling and perhaps is also feeling a bit guilty. If this point were only marginally important to Cole, I would have trouble understanding Cole's willingness to ostensibly suspend his conclusion in favor of a statement by Carmon about MEMRI's funding, as if he had done a sloppy job researching.
Furthermore, it's possible that Cole didn't merely err, but rather fabricated a figure, a possibility you aren't even taking into account. It's possible Carmon was right claiming Cole's assertion was patently false. You might have prefer to think must be wrong on this point as if by default; I don't see it that way.
As to the manner that MEMRI would like to be perceived by the public on how well funded it may be, I'm not sure what to think, except perhaps that unlike most non-profits, they wish to avoid too much an appearance of a heavily bankrolled organization since Carmon, influenced by his long service in military intelligence (and could be somewhat paranoid), may feel his organization could receive too much media and public attention which -- by his reckoning -- would engender too many conspiracy theories about MEMRI that would harm its credibility. Don't forget this is only conjecture on my part.
>>>"after all, Carmon is actually described in the article as a former Israeli intelligence officer, not a journalist, so maybe that provides a clue where MEMRI actually gets some of its funding?"<<<
I've found a credible source describing MEMRI's funding under the header "MEMRI funders": http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Middle%20East%20Media%20Research%20Institute .
Personally, I wouldn't rule out MEMRI having some ties to the American and/or Israeli intelligence communities. But let's not presume that all ties are the same.
I haven't studied the problems with Judith Miller, so I can't and won't pass judgement over that now.
I suppose you have earned the right to be proud of your former legal occupation. Just bear in mind that a person's (be that person a leftist or rightist) arguments may carry merits irrespective of his/her resort to accusatory adjectives and adverbs while articulating those arguments. Unlike you, I won't flaunt a score sheet documenting your mistakes and merits compared to mine and how often each of us erred.
On a final note, I'm the only one using "my" alias here.
As for Cole's claim about MEMRI's funding, my reply may very well seem lame to you, but again, Mr. Cole sounds like someone who had been caught in some wrongdoing, is wriggling and perhaps is also feeling a bit guilty. If this point were only marginally important to Cole, I would have trouble understanding Cole's willingness to ostensibly suspend his conclusion in favor of a statement by Carmon about MEMRI's funding, as if he had done a sloppy job researching.
Furthermore, it's possible that Cole didn't merely err, but rather fabricated a figure, a possibility you aren't even taking into account. It's possible Carmon was right claiming Cole's assertion was patently false. You might have prefer to think must be wrong on this point as if by default; I don't see it that way.
As to the manner that MEMRI would like to be perceived by the public on how well funded it may be, I'm not sure what to think, except perhaps that unlike most non-profits, they wish to avoid too much an appearance of a heavily bankrolled organization since Carmon, influenced by his long service in military intelligence (and could be somewhat paranoid), may feel his organization could receive too much media and public attention which -- by his reckoning -- would engender too many conspiracy theories about MEMRI that would harm its credibility. Don't forget this is only conjecture on my part.
>>>"after all, Carmon is actually described in the article as a former Israeli intelligence officer, not a journalist, so maybe that provides a clue where MEMRI actually gets some of its funding?"<<<
I've found a credible source describing MEMRI's funding under the header "MEMRI funders": http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Middle%20East%20Media%20Research%20Institute .
Personally, I wouldn't rule out MEMRI having some ties to the American and/or Israeli intelligence communities. But let's not presume that all ties are the same.
I haven't studied the problems with Judith Miller, so I can't and won't pass judgement over that now.
I suppose you have earned the right to be proud of your former legal occupation. Just bear in mind that a person's (be that person a leftist or rightist) arguments may carry merits irrespective of his/her resort to accusatory adjectives and adverbs while articulating those arguments. Unlike you, I won't flaunt a score sheet documenting your mistakes and merits compared to mine and how often each of us erred.
On a final note, I'm the only one using "my" alias here.
from the blog at antiwar.com
[The David Frum Defense Fund
David Frum complains about CAIR's attempted suppression of his free speech. Maybe Frum would like to team up with Juan Cole to protest such tactics. Drop him a line and let's see: dfrum [at] aei.org]
they get to threaten to sue people like Juan Cole, but it is an abomination when someone sues them
CAIR is the Council on American Islamic Relations, so naturally, where do they get the idea that they can act like MEMRI?
for anyone interested in reading the links, go to this blog entry at antiwar.com
as for Critical Thinker: my reference to our discussion about settlements wasn't about intimating that he was wrong in this instance as well
instead, it was about showing that we all make mistakes now and then, and that it is hypocritical to impugn ill will to it and attack the integrity of someone for it (again, assuming Cole is in error, which has not been shown yet)
as for my reference to the possibility that someone else had been using using your name during this earlier discussion, I thought it was obvious that I provided this caveat to avoid claiming that you had said something that you hadn't
finally, as to the possibility that Carmon wants to keep a low profile with MEMRI's finances because of his past involvement with Israeli intelligence, I'm sure that he does :)
personally, based upon my own public experience, greater transparency, not less, is usually much more effective
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
[The David Frum Defense Fund
David Frum complains about CAIR's attempted suppression of his free speech. Maybe Frum would like to team up with Juan Cole to protest such tactics. Drop him a line and let's see: dfrum [at] aei.org]
they get to threaten to sue people like Juan Cole, but it is an abomination when someone sues them
CAIR is the Council on American Islamic Relations, so naturally, where do they get the idea that they can act like MEMRI?
for anyone interested in reading the links, go to this blog entry at antiwar.com
as for Critical Thinker: my reference to our discussion about settlements wasn't about intimating that he was wrong in this instance as well
instead, it was about showing that we all make mistakes now and then, and that it is hypocritical to impugn ill will to it and attack the integrity of someone for it (again, assuming Cole is in error, which has not been shown yet)
as for my reference to the possibility that someone else had been using using your name during this earlier discussion, I thought it was obvious that I provided this caveat to avoid claiming that you had said something that you hadn't
finally, as to the possibility that Carmon wants to keep a low profile with MEMRI's finances because of his past involvement with Israeli intelligence, I'm sure that he does :)
personally, based upon my own public experience, greater transparency, not less, is usually much more effective
--Richard Estes
Davis, CA
We are 100% volunteer and depend on your participation to sustain our efforts!
Donate
$330.00 donated
in the past month
Get Involved
If you'd like to help with maintaining or developing the website, contact us.
Publish
Publish your stories and upcoming events on Indybay.
Topics
More
Search Indybay's Archives
Advanced Search
►
▼
IMC Network