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Israel Soldier Who Killed Hurndall: Followed Orders to Kill Unarmed People

by RWF (repost) (restes60 [at] earthlink.net)
a revealing article from the Manchester Guardian
[Soldier who shot Briton admits lying

Israeli on trial for manslaughter says peace activist was unarmed

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Thursday December 16, 2004
The Guardian

The Israeli soldier on trial for killing the British peace activist Tom Hurndall in the Gaza Strip has admitted he was lying when he said his victim was carrying a gun, but said he was under orders to open fire even on unarmed people.

Sergeant Idier Wahid Taysir is charged with manslaughter for shooting Mr Hurndall, 22, as he tried to shelter children on the edge of Rafah from Israeli army gunfire in April last year. He died of his injuries in January.

The sergeant told the military court that after shooting Mr Hurndall he had reported it to his commander.

"I told him that I did what I'm supposed to; anyone who enters a firing zone must be taken out. [The commander] always says this," he said.

The army has already been accused of carrying out an unwritten policy of shooting unarmed civilians who enter a closed security zone in Rafah, which led to the killing of a 13-year-old girl.

Sgt Taysir told the army investigators he had opened fire at Mr Hurndall because the Briton was on the edge of the security zone, carrying a weapon and wearing camouflage clothing.

In fact, he had not entered the closed zone, had no gun and was wearing a bright orange jacket.

The prosecutor asked the sergeant if Mr Hurndall had a weapon.

Sgt Taysir replied: "No. That's the truth."

"So you gave a false report to the company commander?" the prosecutor asked.

"I did not give a false report. He might have had a weapon under his clothing. People fire freely there. The [Israeli army] fires freely in Rafah."

The prosecutor continued: "But you told him that you saw a weapon?"

"Right."

"So you lied?"

"I said it."

The prosecutor then asked: "After that, you also reported that the man fired in the air and at you, right? Why did you report that he fired at you?"

The sergeant replied: "Because I had already fired without getting approval [from the company commander]. Everything was under pressure and a result of fear. They tell us all the time to fire; that there is approval. All the troops [in Rafah] fire without approval at anyone who crosses a red line."

Sgt Taysir has also been charged with obstruction of justice.

He told the court that he did not know details of the army's rules of engagement. "I don't know them. No one ever explained anything to me about these documents."

The military investigation initially cleared Sgt Taysir but was reopened under pressure from Mr Hurndall's family and the Foreign Office after the army's account of the shooting was shown to be false.

Mr Hurndall's mother, Jocelyn, welcomed the soldier's testimony, saying it confirmed the family's belief that Sgt Taysir was not a rogue element but operating under a military policy that permitted the shooting of unarmed civilians.

"We remain extremely concerned about the culture in which the soldier was functioning," she said. "It seems from what he's said that he was following orders, that he was doing what he was told to do and what other soldiers are told to do."

But Mrs Hurndall said that it was difficult to discover exactly what the orders were, because the court sessions on the rules of engagement were held in secret. "The problem is we don't have access to the closed-door sessions at which the rules of engagement are discussed," she said.

"The Israelis say it is because we are beyond their jurisdiction and not governed by their secrecy laws. They know we will speak out publicly and they can't prosecute us."]

Add Your Comments

Comments (Hide Comments)
by How Dare the Jews shoot Back!
How Dare the Jews shoot Back!

Hundall was there to assist terrorists and he got what he deserved!
by ANGEL
Hundall was there to document the home demolitions and other atrocities committed by the IDF
Hundall was unarmed. Non of this would have to happen if the Palestinian People had their Viable State called for in the Road Map to Peace in the Whole of the West Bank and Gaza.
by Merrilee Rush & The Turnabouts/Juice Newton
There'll be no strings to bind your hands
Not if my love can't bind your heart.
And there's no need to take a stand
For it was I who chose to start.
I see no need to take me home,
I'm old enough to face the dawn.

Just call me angel of the morning ANGEL
Just touch my cheek before you leave me, baby.
Just call me angel of the morning ANGEL
then slowly turn away from me.

Maybe the sun's light will be dim
And it won't matter anyhow.
If morning's echo says we ve sinned,
Well, it was what I wanted now.
And if we're the victims of the night,
I won't be blinded by light.

Just call me angel of the morning ANGEL
Just touch my cheek before you leave me, baby.
Just call me angel of the morning ANGEL
Then slowly turn away,
I won't beg you to stay with me
Through the tears of the day,
Of the years, baby baby baby.
Just call me angel of the morning ANGEL
Just touch my cheek before you leave me, baby.
by Critical Thinker
This incident wouldn't have occurred had he not gotten into the area where he was shot to begin with. As of yet, there's no conclusive evidence pointing to deliberate killing by an Israeli soldier.

And perhaps Hurdall wouldn't have come if Arafat hadn't rejected the Camp David and Taba offers.
by just wondering
And what of Rana Siam 8, who was killed inside her house in Khan Yunis, 10 December 2004?

Would *that* incident have occurred had she not gotten into the area where she was shot to begin with?

by get your facts straight
In a recent piece describing the events that led to the death of a Palestinian girl, Al Jazeera failed to make its readers aware of the fact that the girl’s death was an accidental. The incident came as a result of the Israeli Defense Force repelling a Palestinian terrorist mortar attack against the Jewish Neve Dekalim settlement which originated from the adjoining Palestinian Khan Younis refugee camp - in which the girl lived. The precipitating terror attacks seriously injured five Israelis, including a child.


Headline - “Relatives of 7-year-old Palestinian Rana Siam, shot and killed by Israeli forces." Story synopsis - "Israeli forces shot dead a 7-year-old Palestinian girl in a Gaza refugee camp, Palestinian security sources said on Friday." Al-Jazeera 12/10/04


Provocation for the Israeli action isn't even mentioned, and the reader is thus left with the impression that the IDF is intentionally engaged in a policy of cold-blooded murder of Palestinian children. This is Al Jazeera's standard operating procedure and the degree to which such intentional slanting of media coverage propagates an ongoing sense of rage among Palestinians should be apparent.

To be fair, Reuter's coverage of the same event was not that dissimilar, again that is par for the course.

nessie routinely changes the topic and then has the nerve to accuse others of changing same. Now let's get back to the topic at hand.
by don't believe it
Thta's just more swill from the Zionist propaganda mill. Zionists can *never* be taken at their word. They are inveterate liars. They have to be. There is no honest defense for ethnic cleansing.
nessie cannot disprove what he's contesting. Ergo, he's trying to pull the wool over your eyes. He's an inveterate liar. He has to be, because he has nothing else to show. Now let's get back to the topic.
by anti-racist
nessie's ubiquitous rabid anti-Zionist propaganda mill just doesn't let up. But why should we put any stock into his doubts? Does he have anything solid with which to call the incident's picture into question? The history of rabid pro-Arab anti-Zionist animosity toward historical truth coup;les with collaberation in murder of Jews reaches as far back as the beginnings of the Zionism's humble beginnings. Anyone who believes a nessie is doomed to repeat history and foist its repetition upon decent humans unlike himself,

Now let's get back to the topic.
by heard is before
Zionists have a long, rich history of taking collective revenge, murdering innocents in cold blood in the process and then lying through their teeth about it. So for them to claim this case was an accident is suspect. The burden of proof is on them.

But if it really was an accident, and not murder, it is a clear case of manslaughter, on for which you or I would be imprisoned for many years.

Either way, the question remains. Why is the perp not in prison?
by anti-racist
pro-Arab rabid anti-Zionists have a long, rich history of taking collective revenge against truth spreaders, murdering innocent truth in cold blood in the process and then lying through their teeth about it. So for them to claim this case was cold clooded murder is worse than suspect. The burden of proof is on them.

But if it really was an accident, and not murder, it is not a clear case of manslaughter, on for which you or I would be imprisoned for many years. After all, nessie and his ilk haven't conducted a hands-on investigation.

Either way, the question remains. Why is nessie admant on not letting us get back to the topic?
by Prof
What sucks is, scumbags like nessie work each day to promote hatred of anything "zionist" or Israel-related, and the propaganda works on the minds of ignorant people.

I don't know why this "nessie" scumbag thinks that his life will somehow improve if he convincines people to hate israel for even existing, let alone for things israel does (or does not do), but he seems obsessed.

Almost every decent discussion about israel gets hijacked because rabid, insane, anti-israel maniacs bust in and hurl idiotic, exaggerated bullshit (usually either the truth exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness, or the truth mixed with lies, or just lies and exaggerations), that reasonable discussion gets trashed, and people who recognize that scum like nessie are lunatics wind up just getting pushed further to the opposite extreme, and nothing gets done.

Kind of like the israel/palestinian situation. If extreme lunatics keep attacking israel for the next 500 years, palestinians will live shitty lives for at least the next 500 years.

Of course, most arabs who live in the actual arab countries right next to the palestinians live pretty s hitty lives, too, so I'm not sure what will change. But whatever.

by RWF (restes60 [at] earthlink.net)
[This incident wouldn't have occurred had he not gotten into the area where he was shot to begin with. As of yet, there's no conclusive evidence pointing to deliberate killing by an Israeli soldier.

And perhaps Hurdall wouldn't have come if Arafat hadn't rejected the Camp David and Taba offers.]

No, try reading the article again. Sometimes, I read things too quickly and miss some pertinent information.

In this instance, Hurndall got killed because the soldier admitted to shooting him, even though he was unarmed.

Let's go through this in more detail:

[This incident wouldn't have occurred had he not gotten into the area where he was shot to begin with.]

The soldier stated that Hurndall hadn't entered the security area, was unarmed and was wearing a bright orange jacket.

[As of yet, there's no conclusive evidence pointing to deliberate killing by an Israeli soldier.]

The soldier who killed him provided specific details that describe the circumstances, as set forth in the article.

[And perhaps Hurdall wouldn't have come if Arafat hadn't rejected the Camp David and Taba offers.]

And, perhaps, Hurndall wouldn't have come if Barak and Sharon hadn't manipulated the peace process to permanently preserve Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank.

None of which means anything, because the soldier who killed Hurndall, to go through it yet again, admitted to doing it, despite Hurndall being unarmed, outside the security zone, on the orders of his superior officer.

Most people would consider this contemptible, regardless of how Hurndall tragically found himself in a position to be killed.

--Richard Estes




by ANGEL
And none of the atrocities that have been occurring would have to happen if Israel would allow the Palestinian People to have their viable State called for in the Road Map in the Whole of the West Bank and Gaza, instead of a Carved up Mess.......
by ANGEL
And none of the atrocities that have been occurring would have to happen if the Palestinians agreed to create their State in the Whole of the West Bank and Gaza free of Settlements and did not start their War for Murder and Destruction.......
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